THE OFFICIAL FB Team HOBBY BOX CLUB - August 2011


Box Selection -


2011 Panini Rookies & Stars - $80 (4 hits)
2011 Panini Rookies & Stars - $80 (4 hits)
2011 Topps Jumbo - $89 (2 autos, 1 GU)
2011 Press Pass Legends - $121 (5 autos, 1 GU)

Total: $370 (17 hits)


This months breaker - WestCoastSkinsFan

* ALL MEMBER FEES ARE DUE BY August 1st

Fees are normally $25.

Due to concerns with Paypal and Group Breaks, here is a suggested avenue for describing your payments:

Subject:
Team Set Builders Dues (August)
Note:
Please create a team set and one team set to be determined for me.
Team: YOUR TEAM + 1 team TBD

Please Mention TCC Username

Breaking ETA: ???

Draft Order and Results


1. road_runner_1964 - Detroit Lions
2. WestCoastSkinsFan - Miami Dolphins
3. flea - Denver Broncos
4. imacrackr - Arizona Cardinals
5. yankeesjetsfan - Baltimore Ravens
6. Cool Hand Flash - NY Giants
7. bajmurray - Philadelphia Eagles
8. thesobons - San Diego Chargers
9. Takeobeavis - Washington Redskins
10. DCool - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
11. echunks - Kansas City Chiefs
12. Rhody_Red_Pats - Cleveland Browns
13. 19th Century Indiana Jones (PM Mr264) - Buffalo Bills
14. alhill37 - Seattle Seahawks
15. SuPaDuPa916 - Oakland Raiders
16. Pejarox7620 - Houston Texans


Team change requests:

Pejarox7620 from Titans to Saints
SuPaDuPa916 from Broncos to Titans

Member Status

Rhody_Red_Pats - PAID
road_runner_1964 - PAID
WestCoastSkinsFan - PAID
Pejarox7620 - PAID
echunks - PAID
thesobons - PAID
flea - PAID
19th Century Indiana Jones - PAID (Covered by Mr. 264)
SuPaDuPa916 - Payment arranged
DCool - PAID
Takeobeavis - PAID
Cool Hand Flash - PAID
alhill37 - PAID
yankeesjetsfan - PAID
bajmurray - PAID
imacrackr - PAID

TEAMS:

AFC East
Buffalo Bills -
Miami Dolphins -
New England Patriots - Rhody_Red_Pats
New York Jets - yankeesjetsfan

AFC North
Cincinnati Bengals - 19th Century Indiana Jones
Baltimore Ravens -
Cleveland Browns -
Pittsburgh Steelers - alhill37

AFC South
Indianapolis Colts - Cool Hand Flash
Tennessee Titans - SuPaDuPa916
Houston Texans -
Jacksonville Jaguars - imacrackr

AFC West
San Diego Chargers -
Denver Broncos -
Kansas City Chiefs -
Oakland Raiders -

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys - bajmurray
Philadelphia Eagles -
New York Giants -
Washington Redskins -

NFC North
Chicago Bears - flea
Detroit Lions -
Minnesota Vikings - echunks
Green Bay Packers - thesobons

NFC South
Tampa Bay Buccaneers -
Atlanta Falcons - Takeobeavis
New Orleans Saints - Pejarox7620
Carolina Panthers - WestCoastSkinsFan

NFC West
St. Louis Rams - road_runner_1964
San Francisco 49ers - DCool
Seattle Seahawks -
Arizona Cardinals -

16 Members. You pick your team. The 16 remaining teams will be picked by a draft held each month.

Fee is $25 a month. That buys $360-370 of hobby boxes each month for us to bust and pays for shipping & supplies.

You get all base, inserts, gu, autos, ect of your teams that is pulled from the boxes.

Multi-team card rules:

1) If a Mulitple player card involves a owned team and a drafted team (s), the owned team gets the card.
2) Multiple player cards go to the member who gets least amount of Autos & Gued from his owned team. Member must own the team that is part of the multiple player card. Only owned teams will be part of the evaluation.
3) Multiple player cards Tie Breaker - Includes owned team serial numbered cards are counted along with the autos & game used cards, from their owned team.

If you fail to pay by the DUE DATE, YOU will not participate in the break. Your team will be sold and your membership forfeited.

If you're interested in changing your owned team, you must do this before the draft. If you change owned teams, you will automatically be put at the bottom of the draft order for the current month.

TRANSACTIONS: Within ONE week prior to our break or soon after the break occurs, our breaker will create transactions for every member involved. Please make sure you confirm/agree on YOUR transaction thread.

FUTURE MEMBERS: Please understand that there is a waiting list. If you would like to add your name to this list, then please contact WestCoastSkinsFan . When a spot is relinquished, the 1st person off of the list is notified. Anyone who can pay the monthly fee can join. We have ZERO restrictions.

So on top of normal breaking activities, we have a relatively major decision to make this month. So, with permission, I'd like to ask for your replies to cover the following this month:

-Confirming participation/team
-Voting on pricing change
-Voting on box selection
-Do you want base cards this month?

As mentioned, we have a potential pricing change. I actually hadn't been paying attention to this, but I checked, and Mr. 264 is correct. With PayPal's fees, rising shipping costs, etc, our current pricing model doesn't work quite as well as it used to.

With that being said, I've brewed up a couple thoughts on how we can address things:

1. Charge $27.50 per person instead of $25.
2. Charge $27.50 per person IF you want base, $25 per person without base.
3. Break slightly approx. $350ish instead of $375ish.
4. Just keep things the same.

The cost isn't TOO bad on my end, so I'm willing to eat the minor hit I'll take and keep things the same. Also, if we decide to reduce the boxes we buy, we'll take that into consideration NEXT month, so we don't have to modify any options. Any price increases will happen for this month.

Box options:

Option 1 (The new stuff):

2011 Panini Rookies & Stars - $80 (4 hits)
2011 Panini Rookies & Stars - $80 (4 hits)
2011 Topps Jumbo - $89 (2 autos, 1 GU)
2011 Press Pass Legends - $121 (5 autos, 1 GU)

Total: $370 (17 hits)


Option 2 (Hit optimization):

2011 Topps Rising Rookies - $74 (4 hits)
2011 SAGE Autographed - $121 (14 autos)
2011 Press Pass - $66 (5 autos)
2011 Leaf Metal Draft - $69 (4 autos)
2011 Topps - $53 (1 hit)

Total: $383 (28 hits)


Option 3 (Not-so-new-but-still-haven't-tried-it):

2011 Leaf Ultimate Draft - $85 (4 autos)
2011 Press Pass Legends - $121 (5 autos, 1 GU)
2011 SAGE Autographed - $121 (14 autos)
2011 TriStar SignaCuts - $41 (1 auto)

Total: $368 (25 hits)


Option 4 (Non-Sage/Press Pass Potpurri):

2011 Donruss Elite - $96 (4 hits)
2011 Panini Rookies & Stars - $80 (4 hits)
2011 Topps Jumbo - $89 (2 autos, 1 GU)
2011 Topps Rising Rookies - $74 (4 hits)
2011 Score - $28 (0 hits guaranteed)

Total: $367 (15 hits)

None of these are set in stone, of course. Variations are always welcome.

And to kick things off...

-Yes, I'm in with the Panthers!
-I vote #2, the $2.50 increase for base!
-I vote for Option #2, just to spread things around a bit!
-Were I not opening the cards myself, I would NOT want base!

Im in

I vote payment option #3

And box option #1

And as usual, I only want Peyton and Beanie base..

Now, this whole price issue.. Wasnt this a group break where you PAY to get all your teams cards? If that becomes a money issue, the logical thing is, to calculate as if everyone wants every card. If theres extra money, add that to next months total. Seems fairly simple and straight forward. The thought that because you should pay extra because you want what you already paid for is down right moronic.

Mark,

Originally, very few people required base...this has caused increase in shipping costs, in addition shipping costs have increased. Like Sam, I don't have an issue covering some costs, but it is only the right thing to do in being mindful of expenses these days. That is the purpose of the discussion.

We can keep it at the $25 level, but the target product spend reduced. That is why we are having the discussion on options.

Bob

3. Break slightly approx. $350ish instead of $375ish.

Like it states in the first post each month. It says all base, just because the postal prices rise shouldn't mean some should pay more than others. Its a "hazzard" of joining a break where all base can/will be included (by that I mean, if you dont want base, you dont have "extra cash for cards". Its $25 for everything, weather or not you want everything or nothing).

When the postage price rises, its either do we all add extra? Or do we cut in the product? The other two options seem illogical.

Btw im not being angry or anything, it just seems that way when I dont add a smiley

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this one on the cost deal.

Think of it like this: if I offered a slight discount to the participants who decided not to get base, and thus reduced shipping costs, would that be unfair?

This, basically, is the same deal. It's the price increase to all, but a discount to those willing to go without the base cards. It costs less to ship, so I can charge less.

Edit: So nice, I said it twice!

So if I one month have 10 hits and no base its no extra, and the following month I get 5 base cards, youre telling I should pay more for 5 base cards even though it would weigh less than the 10 hits?

All in all it doesnt really matter, I pay extra now and then anyway

And what if I pay extra for base, but due to box selection, i dont get any? Press Pass for example..

CHF - I understand where you're coming from, and yes, theoretically, 10 hits would take more to ship than 5 base, and sometimes, you don't get much base, but we have to look at this for the majority of circumstances.

Generally speaking, base will out-weigh/out-bulk the "hits" by a pretty wide margain, and I can tell you from experience that about 99 times out of 100, those packages WITH base are more expensive to ship and require more sleeves, team bags, etc.

Again, I'm open to ANY of the suggestions, but don't think that this is arbitrary by any means. Just trying to be as fair as we can, as much of the time as we can.

Option 3

Keep the price at $25, but buy product accordingly.

It's all good, as long as we aren't talking millions of dollars I think most will be fine with what the voting ends up at

Remember, since we're voting on several things, make sure it's clear what you're voting on both the cost issue, and the box selection!

-In with the Pats
- $27.50 for base
- Option #4
- Patriots base only

* In with the Vikes
* Option #3 for the fees
* Option #1 for the cards
* All base please

Thanks,
Eddie

In with the steelers
fee option #3
box selection #3
All Base

I have to agree with CHF's point. If you legally agree to terms such as $25 for all cards it should be $25. Its almost like terms in a service contract I agree to pay this amout for this service, and that service should be delivered.
But the real thiefs here are: PayPal and the Post Office.

Fee vote:

Option 1 - 0
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 5
Option 4 - 0


Box vote:

Option 1 - 2
Option 2 - 1
Option 3 - 1
Option 4 - 1

i vote #2 payment, and #4 box option

Unfortunately, it is not a service contract. It is a bunch of guys breaking wax and sharing in the proceeds.

The whole point of the discussion was to alert everyone to the increase in expenses and that, as breakers (who do it for fun and the group), shouldn't be conistently burdened with the additional expenses. Therefore, the topic was brought up to the group to make a decision or to say "Hey we are going to be getting less product for our $25".

No more, no less. Now, if everyone wants to take a turn at busting and doing all the crap that goes with it, then this whole topic is a mute point. But, at this point, Sam shouldn't incur all the burden of additional expense. The group has changed the dynamics has changed. In the past few people wanted "all" the base and most always chipped in a little extra, without asking. That is what the group is about, it is not a "service".

My votes and requests:

In with the niners.
Fee option #3
Box selection #2 - More hits, I'd love to go out with a bang if we indeed reduce the amount of product starting next month.
Only 49ers base please.

Other notes:

- I'll send a little extra to help cover the more expensive box selection if it gets chosen indeed.

- Frankly, fee option #4 shouldn't even be on that list. You guys (Sam and Bob usually) do us a great service with the monthly breaks and all the work that comes with it. You should never have to incur the extra financial burden.

- With regards to the base discussion, I can definitely see both sides, which is why I picked option #3 where we can keep our costs the same and bringing down our product budget instead. On that note, an idea I'd like to bounce to you guys: What if we took only base for our owned team, and left out the drafted team base? Would that allow for costs to remain the same for everyone (including breakers)? Perhaps if someone wanted base from their drafted team as well, then they could pay a little extra?

Interesting points, DCool. That might be another idea for an "in-between" suggestion.

Speaking of interesting, I don't think we've EVER had a box vote spread out this much.

Fee vote:

Option 1 - 0
Option 2 - 3
Option 3 - 6
Option 4 - 0


Box vote:

Option 1 - 2
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 1
Option 4 - 2

1. I'm in
2. The breaker shoud not have to shouder any extra for the break but CHF brought up an interesting point, you could conceivably end up with someone paying extra for 7 or 8 base while someone else could get 4 rookie cards 5 inserts & 4 auto or thick GU cards & pay nothing extra for a package that woud cost more. I think the only fair thing is everyone pays extra or we shop within our means.
3. option 3
4. I can't state wether or not I want base untill I see what team i draft. Most times I don't take base(other than Bears) but if I get a team that someone I know follows i like to spread the card love & send them off to them

woud quite ike to but it's highly unlikely as most of the payments would definitely go on postage

im in
box selection 1
fee option 3
no base
and ummm anything else i miss?

Flea, you've mentioned a couple options on the fees. What would your vote be? The raised fees for all, or the reduced money for boxes?

Fee vote:

Option 1 - 0
Option 2 - 3
Option 3 - 7
Option 4 - 0


Box vote:

Option 1 - 3
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 2
Option 4 - 2

I'm easy with either but if I'm pushed then increased fees for all

Fee option 1
Box option 1

I have no problem paying a little more and will never need base. I am confused how $2.50 is such a big discussion point. Its a fun and very affordable break. I will be happy to donate my base and most, if not all my inserts to anybody who gets shorted.

Takeobeavis - I appreciate your input on this one, man. And really, I think you make a good point on this to the point where I, too, will be switching my vote to fee option #1 ($2.50 more for all).

Really, it's not much more. Also, I think that even though I never want base, being able to say that I'll also pitch in for extra shipping regardless is a good thing.

Fee vote:

Option 1 - 3
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 7
Option 4 - 0


Box vote:

Option 1 - 4
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 2
Option 4 - 2

C'mon guys. Let's get this rolling!

-Yes, I'm in with the Packers!

-I vote #3!

-I vote for [color=orange]Option #3

- I want Rodgers base & single Packers from new prods only!

Okay, that vote settles one issue. Starting next month, we're lowering the amount of product we break to around the $350 mark.

Fee vote:

Option 1 - 3
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 8
Option 4 - 0

The box vote, with 5 votes left, is still very much up in the air. It could still be anything!

Box vote:

Option 1 - 4
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 3
Option 4 - 2

Still need box votes from the following, if my records are right:

road_runner_1964
Karlito's Way
19th Century Indiana Jones
yankeesjetsfan
bajmurray

My vote was for box option 3

Box option 1.....

Ah, sorry guys, with multiple things we're voting on, it's a little tough to decode at points.

Box vote:

Option 1 - 5
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 4
Option 4 - 2

Still need votes from:

Karlito's Way
19th Century Indiana Jones
yankeesjetsfan

And still, anything is fair game. Nothing has been eliminated!

I'm in with the Jets.

I vote for payment option 2

I vote for box break option1

Thanks,

Mike

Box vote:

Option 1 - 6
Option 2 - 2
Option 3 - 4
Option 4 - 2

Box option 1 is starting to pull away. One more vote seals the deal unless something changes.

Also, it looks like we have a free slot. Unfortunately, I heard from Karlito, and he's stepping away from the break for now.

That means I'll be contacting our wait list to see who's next in line. Also, it means that the Saints are available if anyone would like to switch! If you're interested, please let it be known.

Ill take a 2nd spot with the Saints.

If I can.

I would like to switch to the Saints!

thesobons - Since we have a couple folks on our waiting list, I believe we'll still have a full group this month. I'll keep you posted if we have to double-up on slots though.

So I'm going to wait a day or two for the top spot on our waiting list to reply, but we DO have a backup ready to go!

On a related note, has anyone heard from Indy? Looks like he hasn't been on in a while. I'd hate to free up his slot, too!

you breaking Sam?

I will be, yes sir.

Count him in, I will cover his spot, till we receive an definitive answer.

Just heard back from the #1 person on our list, and he is IN.

Let's welcome in Matt, imacrackr, with the Jaguars!

hey guys my name is Matthew and I'm joining the group and taking the Jacksonville Jaguars as my team