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crpalmi
Hey guys...I know TCC is not exactly a hot bed for BB card collectors and even less so for Vintage BB card collectors, but a guy's gotta start somewhere!

Fot the past 3 years I have been interested in starting a group break that would specialize in ripping vintage packs of Baseball cards. Remember there was a time when there were no "hits" to chase? I know I'm one to talk but I'd like to get back to those times where we can collect for the player as well as cater to the "graders" out there that are uber-concious as to the investment or collectible potential of high grade vintage cards which is what you would be after in busting vintage wax.

So what's the format? As soon as payments are received we randomize the slot order using random.org. Say we have 12 slots purchased... we randomize the list of participants, and once randomized if you end up with slot #4, you will receive the 4th card pulled. We then randomize the slot order again and we do this as many times as we need to cover the amount of cards we expect to pull. Once all that is established we then randomize the order in which we open the products (although if any one product is particularly cheaper than the others that product will be placed last). That way if we don't have the same number of slots as cards, if anyone is shorted a card it will be from the least expensive product. Also, if any inserts are included in the packs those will be the last "cards" given out so once the final pack is opened we then go back and the 1st insert pulled would go to the next slot in line, and so on.

I know this may sound confusing but once we get into it I'm sure you will see how this is the most fair way to do it as well as a way to ensure that everyone gets something (although it's possible you may get a card less than others based on the random order of the final round.

All this will be established prior to opening any packs so everyone will know exactly which card they get. All pack openings will be on video and I will say the name of the person who will be getting the next card pulled as we slowly slide the cards off the top so everyone knows who gets what.

Cards would be well protected with the understanding that condition would be of primary importance!

So, that's the long read...next question is who would be interested in joining us?

Cost: $80 per slot
Payment Deadline: May 31st


Proposed Product List;

1966 Topps Cello (Series 4) GAI 8.5
1968 Topps Wax (Series 1) PSA 7
1972 OPC Wax (2 packs) Series 1
1975 Topps Mini Wax

user posted image

Here are some of the possibilities from those series;

1975: George Brett RC, Robin Yount RC, etc..

1972: Carlton Fisk RC, Willie Mays, Killebrew, Yastrzemski, Joe Morgan, Bob Gibson, Frank Robinson, League Leader cards.

1968: Mays, Seaver, Carew, Brooks Robinson, Eddie Matthews, Gibson, G. Perry, L. Pinella RC, League Leader cards.

1966: Clemente, Sutton RC, F. Robinson, B. Gibson.


Interested people;

1. Crpalmi --------------------- PAID
2. Miconelegacy --------------- PAID
3. Miconelegacy --------------- PAID
4. tmgrnzx9r ------------------- PAID
5. TTyler516 ------------------ PAID
6. Captkirk42 ----------------- PAID
7. Axe725 --------------------- PAID
8. FrankieFBCards ------------ PAID
9. Crpalmi --------------------- PAID
10. NLR4434 ------------------ PAID
11. NLR4434 ------------------ PAID
12. Miconelegacy -------------- PAID

Here is the slot order randomized by rounds;

Final slot order;

1.NLR4434
2.FrankieFBCards
3.TTyler516
4.Miconelegacy
5.Axe725
6.NLR4434
7.Miconelegacy
8.Crpalmi
9.Crpalmi
10.Captkirk42
11.tmgrnzx9r
12.Miconelegacy
13.FrankieFBCards
14.NLR4434
15.Crpalmi
16.tmgrnzx9r
17.TTyler516
18.Crpalmi
19.Miconelegacy
20.Miconelegacy
21.Axe725
22.Captkirk42
23.NLR4434
24.Miconelegacy
25.Captkirk42
26.tmgrnzx9r
27.TTyler516
28.Miconelegacy
29.Crpalmi
30.FrankieFBCards
31.NLR4434
32.NLR4434
33.Miconelegacy
34.Axe725
35.Crpalmi
36.Miconelegacy
37.FrankieFBCards
38.Crpalmi
39.TTyler516
40.Axe725
41.tmgrnzx9r
42.Captkirk42
43.NLR4434
44.Miconelegacy
45.Miconelegacy
46.Crpalmi
47.Miconelegacy
48.NLR4434
49.Captkirk42
50.Crpalmi
51.FrankieFBCards
52.Miconelegacy
53.TTyler516
54.NLR4434
55.NLR4434
56.Miconelegacy
57.tmgrnzx9r
58.Miconelegacy
59.Crpalmi
60.Axe725




CZT APPROVED
road_runner_1964
Good Luck

QUOTE(crpalmi @ Apr 26 2011, 03:24 PM)
Hey guys...I know this is a long shot as TCC is not exactly a hot bed for BB card collectors and even less so for Vintage BB card collectors, but a guy's gotta start somewhere!

Fot the past 3 years I have been interested in starting a group break that would specialize in ripping vintage packs of Baseball cards. Remember there was a time when there were no "hits" to chase? I know I'm one to talk but I'd like to get back to those times where we can collect for the player as well as cater to the "graders" out there that are uber-concious as to the investment or collectible potential of high grade vintage cards which is what you would be after in busting vintage wax.

So how to do it? The way I figure is there are a couple different ways to run this group. Either randomize the card order so you know before we break that you get (for example) the 2nd, 9th, and 21st card pulled... or we could do a randomized draft order and draft teams each time we break. The only hard part about that is that you could get shut out versus being guaranteed a certain number of cards by doing it the other way.

So what constitutes "vintage"?  We all have a different opinion on this but I would like to be able to have a product list of at least 3 packs each time and focus on the 60's to early 70's (probably not going newer than 1972). I would also want to focus on PSA graded packs whenever possible due to the high number of resealed jobs out there.

So what's the cost? This is a tough one as we wouldn't really know the product list as the availability of packs are not automatic and we'd want to be able to take advantage of deals. I already have 3-4 people interested but I think to make this worthwhile we would need to look at a price range right around $80 from about 8-10 guys. That would give us a budget of about $700 to work with which should be able to garner 3 nice packs or one really nice one and two decent ones anyway. I am convinced that once we get this going it would grow to more participants which means more products (or lower prices) but we have to get it started first.

This would most likely be every two months as it takes awhile to find good deals out there and the breaks would all be on video of course. Team draft or card positioning randomizations would all be done prior to breaking the seal so all would know what cards they are getting as we bust the packs. Cards would be well protected with the understanding that condition would be of primary importance!

So, that's the long read...next question is who would be interested in joining us if we tried this? Say $80 every two months...does that work?

Interested people;

1. Crpalmi
2. Miconelegacy
3. Silverman
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
CZT APPROVED
*


tmgrnzx9r
Chris
This sounds great. Id be interested in a spot!!!!!!
crpalmi
QUOTE(tmgrnzx9r @ Apr 26 2011, 01:46 PM)
Chris
This sounds great. Id be interested in a spot!!!!!!
*


Thanks Eric, I'll add you in as well as Tim as I know he expressed interest earlier in something like this.
TTYLER516
Definitely in but I definitely would want the guaranteed card and not the draft
finestkind
I wish I had an extra $80.00. sad.gif I don't see that happening to me any time soon.




Chris, I hope you can all get together and do something like this. biggrin.gif I'll be looking forward to seeing some scan from everyone.
tmgrnzx9r
Chris
I agree with Tim with have a guaranteed card as oppose to the drafting of cards.
captkirk42
This sounds good. Count me in. Budget could be tight for me sometimes, but what the heck I love me some vintage.

I think in many ways the guaranteed card is the way to go.
Axe725
Count me in...Thanks
crpalmi
Thanks guys...let's get just a couple more and we could give this a shot!
frankieFBcards
QUOTE(crpalmi @ Apr 30 2011, 01:56 PM)
Thanks guys...let's get just a couple more and we could give this a shot!
*





PUT ME IN !!!

QUESTIONS I HAVE ????

CHRIS , CAN / WILL YOU SEND THE CARDS TO GRADE OR SEND UNGRADED ??

ALSO ,IM CLOSE TO FINISHING MY 1968 TOPPS BASEBALL PSA SET (NEED ABOUT 5 CARDS ) ...CAN YOU TRY TO HELP ME WITH A PACK BREAK ??? (ryan ROOKIE - PSA8 OR 9 LOOKS SOOOOOOOO GOOD)
crpalmi
QUOTE(frankieFBcards @ Apr 30 2011, 03:56 PM)
PUT ME IN !!!

    QUESTIONS I HAVE ????
   
    CHRIS , CAN / WILL YOU SEND THE CARDS TO GRADE OR SEND UNGRADED ??

    ALSO ,IM  CLOSE TO FINISHING MY 1968 TOPPS BASEBALL PSA SET (NEED ABOUT 5 CARDS ) ...CAN YOU TRY TO HELP ME WITH A PACK BREAK ??? (ryan ROOKIE - PSA8 OR 9 LOOKS SOOOOOOOO GOOD)
*


Great, I'll count you in! I would send the cards out raw as pulled but if we want to do a group submission to PSA we could talk that through at that time. Don't know about a 68 pack Ryan series as that would probably be our entire budget but perhaps if we grow membership we would expand the budget and product list.
19th Century Indiana Jones
I'm in. When do we break cigarette packs from 1909-11? tongue.gif
nlr4434
Chris, Ill take a slot and 19th brings up an interesting point.

Think at times we could use the whole budget towards one big item or are you against that even with the smaller number of people?

And are we allowed to have more than one slot?
crpalmi
QUOTE(nlr4434 @ May 1 2011, 01:11 PM)
Chris, Ill take a slot and 19th brings up an interesting point.

Think at times we could use the whole budget towards one big item or are you against that even with the smaller number of people?

And are we allowed to have more than one slot?
*


More than one slot is certainly welcome as we're not capped at number of participants. I'd be fine with the budget going towards one biggie but not in the beginning as I'd want to try to build this by allowing everyone to get multiple cards as opposed to just a chance at one card in a spendy pack.

We should have enough to make this work...now the hard part of finding the product that we trust and will also give us the most bang for our buck!
nlr4434
Appreciate it and I would take two slot's Chris as this seems not to be monthly
crpalmi
Would folks be ok with cello packs? You usually get more cards than in wax and historically the cards are better conditioned than in wax. The main issue I see is knowing who gets the first card so we would randomize our card order with our participants and then randomize the product list after that to determine what order we open the products as that should solve that issue. Also I would recommend that we do not include the inserts in the intitial count but put those at the end still distributing in the order that participants were placed by the randomizer. In other words...

Say pack 1 has 12 cards and an insert. Pack 2 has 8 cards and an insert, and pack 3 has 10 cards and an insert. We go in order for the first 12 cards, set that first insert aside and then proceed with the next packs 8 cards in order of the randomization (setting the insert aside) and so on. When we have assigned all the cards we go back and the first packs insert goes to the next person on the list, then the 2nd insert goes to the next person after that on the list, etc.. I hope that makes sense as it will be easier once we put actual numbers to it.

I am toying with the idea of a 65T or 66T pack for the first pack, a 67T or 68T pack for number two, and then depending on our budget that is left maybe a 72T pack?

Oh, and what are people's opinions of OPC packs as Baseball Card Exchange has some late 60's early 70's at decent prices compared to Topps.
tmgrnzx9r
Chris
The card order idea and setting any inserts aside (I assume what you mean by that is the 67 poster or the 66 rub offs, etc) As far a OPC I am not a big fan of them, unless it is hockey. But then if its hockey it would be more than topps. Just my 2 cents
captkirk42
Like the idea of not including the inserts as part of the normal count. Maybe we could random them since it is usually just one insert per pack?

OPC I don't mind but I prefer Topps.
TTYLER516
I would prefer to stay away from opc if possible
captkirk42
OH Cello packs would be OK with me. I guess it will also depend on what is available at the time we want to break.
crpalmi
Ok folks...did some checking around and this is what I would like to propose for our first break;

1966 Topps Cello (Series 4) GAI 8.5
1968 Topps Wax (Series 1) PSA 7
1972 OPC Wax (2 packs) Series 1

I know OPC is not everyones favorite for the 72 but we don't have enough to get anything else decent. Here are some of the possibilities from those series;

1972: Carlton Fisk RC, Willie Mays, Killebrew, Yastrzemski, Joe Morgan, Bob Gibson, Frank Robinson, League Leader cards.

1968: Mays, Seaver, Carew, Brooks Robinson, Eddie Matthews, Gibson, G. Perry, L. Pinella RC, League Leader cards.

1966: Clemente, Sutton RC, F. Robinson, B. Gibson.

We would need 11-12 slots to fill which is right where we're at. The 68 and 72 packs would come from Baseball card Exchange so hopefully I could get enough of a discount we would be fine with just 11 slots. The 66T Cello is on Ebay right now with a BIN of $400.

Let me know what you think about that line up?
nlr4434
Works for me and Chris if we need to I can take a third and maybe we up the price a little?
crpalmi
QUOTE(nlr4434 @ May 8 2011, 06:56 PM)
Works for me and Chris if we need to I can take a third and maybe we up the price a little?
*


Sounds good...I'll wait for more opinions but I'd rather not up the price just yet. I'd like to see what exposure we get from the first break and then see where we can go from there. Of course extra slots are always welcome.
crpalmi
I sent out emails and PM's to those involved in this one. I'd like to go ahead and try this one with the product list we have proposed earlier. I'll updated the original post and would like to try to look for payments by May 31st so I can start buying the products. I am fully convinced that if we can get this one off the ground there will be plenty of others who will want to join and we can upgrade the product list going forward.

Remember it doesn't take a superstar hit to do well with this one! I opened a 1971 OPC pack last year and finally got around to sending a Reds team card in for grading. It came back a PSA 9 which sell for around $250. There are at least 3-4 other cards from that pack that have the same shot at a 9 and will be sent in when I get enough for a bulk submission but keep that in mind that you won't have to hit a Clemente or Mays to make this one worthwhile!
Axe725
Chris
Need your address and will send out payment.What do I send a money order?
Thanks
Shawn
crpalmi
QUOTE(Axe725 @ May 23 2011, 02:23 PM)
Chris
Need your address and will send out payment.What do I send a money order?
          Thanks
                  Shawn
*


PM sent.
captkirk42
Chris,

My payment is going in the mail Wednesday (later today). Estimated arrival Friday/Saturday.


Kirk
Axe725
Payment mailed Today
frankieFBcards
QUOTE(Axe725 @ May 26 2011, 12:03 PM)
Payment mailed Today
*




heres my proof of payment sent smile.gif
05/31/2011 crpalmi
$80.00 Scheduled
CB6B6YMY
TTYLER516
payment has been sent for my spot
crpalmi
Products were all purchased today so I should have them by this time next week. If we can get the rest of the payments in we can break next weekend.
captkirk42
QUOTE(crpalmi @ Jun 1 2011, 04:38 PM)
Products were all purchased today so I should have them by this time next week. If we can get the rest of the payments in we can break next weekend.
*



Cool. Me likey that. thumbsup.gif
tmgrnzx9r
Chris
Are we still looking at this break happening this weekend?????
crpalmi
QUOTE(tmgrnzx9r @ Jun 8 2011, 02:37 PM)
Chris
Are we still looking at this break happening this weekend?????
*


Unfortunately it's not looking good. I just got word that the 66T pack won't be mailed out until tomorrow so chances are I won't get it by Saturday. I still can't reach 19th Century so if I don't hear anything in the next couple days I'll take over his slot. With the 12 slots we are able to add a 1975T pack to the mix as I got a slight discount from BBCExchange so I'm adding that to the list. With the deadline almost 10 days ago I'll set the slot drop deadline for Friday afternoon. If I don't hear anything we'll go ahead and start the randoms to determine card slots for everyone so we'll be ready to go when the 66T pack arrives. NLR4434 has verified her payment is incoming so her slots should be fine.
tmgrnzx9r
Thanks for the update!!
crpalmi
Sorry...should have said 75T Mini pack!
captkirk42
QUOTE(crpalmi @ Jun 9 2011, 11:47 PM)
Sorry...should have said 75T Mini pack!
*



OH Cool.
crpalmi
Quick update. I got the tracking info on the 66T pack and it doesn't arrive until Tuesday and I'm out of town Tue-Wed so it looks like the earliest we can do this is next Thursday. That will give 19th Century some more time to reclaim his slot so I'll push back the randomizations until Monday before I leave on the trip. Sorry about that.
crpalmi
Ok folks, I still haven't heard from Indy so I'll take the slot so we can proceed with the break. I am randomizing our list on random.org 5 times (twice between each result) to get the order. I will treat them in rounds and then compile a full list from card #1 up to the highest possible keeping in mind we will not have pulls for the last several slots depending on the final card count in these 5 packs.

Round 1;

1.NLR4434
2.FrankieFBCards
3.TTyler516
4.Miconelegacy
5.Axe725
6.NLR4434
7.Miconelegacy
8.Crpalmi
9.Crpalmi
10.Captkirk42
11.tmgrnzx9r
12.Miconelegacy


Round 2;

1.FrankieFBCards
2.NLR4434
3.Crpalmi
4.tmgrnzx9r
5.TTyler516
6.Crpalmi
7.Miconelegacy
8.Miconelegacy
9.Axe725
10.Captkirk42
11.NLR4434
12.Miconelegacy


Round 3;

1.Captkirk42
2.tmgrnzx9r
3.TTyler516
4.Miconelegacy
5.Crpalmi
6.FrankieFBCards
7.NLR4434
8.NLR4434
9.Miconelegacy
10.Axe725
11.Crpalmi
12.Miconelegacy


Round 4;

1.FrankieFBCards
2.Crpalmi
3.TTyler516
4.Axe725
5.tmgrnzx9r
6.Captkirk42
7.NLR4434
8.Miconelegacy
9.Miconelegacy
10.Crpalmi
11.Miconelegacy
12.NLR4434


Round 5;

1.Captkirk42
2.Crpalmi
3.FrankieFBCards
4.Miconelegacy
5.TTyler516
6.NLR4434
7.NLR4434
8.Miconelegacy
9.tmgrnzx9r
10.Miconelegacy
11.Crpalmi
12.Axe725


So putting it all together, this is the order of pulls that have been assigned. I am not 100% sure on how many cards per pack but expect about 50 total cards but have extended the slots to include the full 5 rounds in case we pull more than that. Remember that any inserts will be saved as the final pulls following the last pack so those bring up the rear.


Final slot order;

1.NLR4434
2.FrankieFBCards
3.TTyler516
4.Miconelegacy
5.Axe725
6.NLR4434
7.Miconelegacy
8.Crpalmi
9.Crpalmi
10.Captkirk42
11.tmgrnzx9r
12.Miconelegacy
13.FrankieFBCards
14.NLR4434
15.Crpalmi
16.tmgrnzx9r
17.TTyler516
18.Crpalmi
19.Miconelegacy
20.Miconelegacy
21.Axe725
22.Captkirk42
23.NLR4434
24.Miconelegacy
25.Captkirk42
26.tmgrnzx9r
27.TTyler516
28.Miconelegacy
29.Crpalmi
30.FrankieFBCards
31.NLR4434
32.NLR4434
33.Miconelegacy
34.Axe725
35.Crpalmi
36.Miconelegacy
37.FrankieFBCards
38.Crpalmi
39.TTyler516
40.Axe725
41.tmgrnzx9r
42.Captkirk42
43.NLR4434
44.Miconelegacy
45.Miconelegacy
46.Crpalmi
47.Miconelegacy
48.NLR4434
49.Captkirk42
50.Crpalmi
51.FrankieFBCards
52.Miconelegacy
53.TTyler516
54.NLR4434
55.NLR4434
56.Miconelegacy
57.tmgrnzx9r
58.Miconelegacy
59.Crpalmi
60.Axe725


I am also randomizing which of the two higher end packs are broken first. The rest will follow in chronological order with the 1972 packs and finally the 1975 pack. Here is the randomization (done 3 times);

1.1966 Topps Cello
2.1968 Topps Wax

So in the end the 5 packs will be in chronological order (with inserts saved for last - in order of pulls).

Hope this all makes sense to everyone but if not feel free to ask questions. It should be clear once we start breaking which I am hoping can be either Thursday or Friday?
tmgrnzx9r
Chris
Is this break happening tonight or tomorrow????
nlr4434
I hope tonight
tmgrnzx9r
Tonight????
nlr4434
Tonight tonight smile.gif
crpalmi
Sorry about that...I meant to update but have been swamped with kid duties as my wife went out of town. The break is indeed tonight. We'll shoot for 8pm(ct).
nlr4434
QUOTE(crpalmi @ Jun 17 2011, 04:46 PM)
Sorry about that...I meant to update but have been swamped with kid duties as my wife went out of town. The break is indeed tonight. We'll shoot for 8pm(ct).
*



Thats what she said
crpalmi
Ok guys...ready to roll on this one. Different format on this one so hopefully everyone understands it but the randomized slots are the card that you get. It will make sense as we do the videos. 5 packs in all for this first break. You'll see we had an "issue" with the original pack #5 so I'll handle that behind the scenes and it was replaced with a full size 75T pack instead of the mini. Keep in mind that condition is even more important than star power as one nicely centered and conditioned card will probably pay for a slot or more.

No recap pics in this one so just the videos. We'll go in chronological order starting with our oldest pack first.

Coming up first is our 1966 Topps Cello pack...that in just a minute.
crpalmi
First up...1966 Topps Cello (GAI 8.5);


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sdw7ahz2yU


user posted image
crpalmi
Next up is our 1968 Topps Wax Pack (PSA 7);


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKbQwhYZQg


user posted image
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