Okay, this is this weeks contest where folks get to debate whether a player deserves to be in the Hall of Fame or not. This is how it goes:

1) Vote

2) Post a reply as to why the player should or should not be in. It doesn't have to be lengthy, and I don't have to agree with it...

3) If you end up debating the issue and post more than once, each post counts as an entry. One or two words posts will not count as an entry.

4) Poll closes at 11:59 pm PST July 25th, no entries after that.

5) I will enter the range of post numbers into random.org and whatever post it spits out will win a prize from me. I'll try to personalize it as best as possible. If random.org picks one of my posts or an ineligible entry, the numbers will be resubmitted.

6) Entries from members on Current Transactions Only will not count. You are free to post, you just aren't eligible to win.



So this week's athlete is Pete Rose. Pete "I have more hits than God" Rose.
He bet on baseball, not a good thing. But is it enough to keep him out of the hall? Not if it were up to me.

And I mean he is in RIGHT NOW. Not after he dies. He screwed up, for sure. But when he played Rose was good for baseball. Let him in.

The guys numbers get him in, and to our knowledge, he got those numbers without the use of steroids or any other substance that helped him inflate those numbers.

The way I look at it, we have two choices. Deny him and those proven to have used performance enhancing drugs from the hall, or, since the latter won't happen, we over look his gambling on baseball and let him in the Hall along with the others that cheated.

He absolutely deserves to be there based on his on field performance, and simply put, he should have been inducted a LONG time ago. It would be a shame for him to finally get in after he passes away. Let him enjoy it, unlike Maris who went to his grave and never got the satisfaction of seeing the asterisk taken off of his home run record.

I'm a bit torn on this one, but I want him to be allowed in.

Basically, it comes down to this: I don't approve of what he did, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense to let in someone whose transgressions didn't impact his overall numbers or performance.

I'm going to have to say no, only because he violated the rules of MLB, they wouldn't of made the rule if they didnt want people betting on baseball. Although his numbers are good enough to get him in, since he bet on the game, that ruined his chances.
-Trent

Let the guy in for Pete's sake!

I fail to realize how his actions affected his PLAY on the field (speaking of his career as a player - which he is most famous for - here). The Hall of Fame is "hypocritical" enough as it is. Battles are constantly waged against Pete (for betting) and steroid users, while other shady characters (Cobb, pitchers who "doctored" the baseball) are currently in the Hall.

Michael I need an option for not in a million years!



Actually I said NO, which goes against previous sentiment.

I feel there is more to the story.. He lied once and I figure Giamatti must have had more information that has never been disclosed!

If these guys on steroids are gonna get in then he definately should

Yes, his on field stats speak for themselves.

Off-field, frankly I don't care.
I watched his career as he developed and
became a Superstar. One only had to watch the
Big Red Machine of the mid '70's to know that
Pete Rose bet on his own team later in his
career.

Yes, he broke the rules, but exceptions are
made in more important matters and one
should certainly be made here.

Collect Hard!,
RGBII

Should he be in? Numbers wise, yes. But unfortunatly I still have to say no.
Just for the simple fact that he lied about it for so long, then when he thought it would benefit him, he admitted to it.

For me it was a very easy choice. Put Pete Rose in the HOF NOW! Every day that Rose is not in the Hall is a crime far worse than the crimes he committed. Aside from the gambling to me he represents everything baseball is supposed to be. Hard work, determination, focus, having fun, and playing hard. Honestly I think the fact that he's not in because he gambled on baseball is a JOKE!

Also can we get some love for Shoeless Joe?

I vote No.

I very much disliked him even before the betting. I hated the spiking of the ball running past the mound when he would make the last out at first.....I know it's all trivial but when looking at the Hall.

I'm with Acecards on the lifetime ban. I think there was more than we know, that would have really hurt baseball at that time that was buried from the public.

The difference with doctoring the ball or playing dirty? Well doctoring the ball leads to ejection and suspensions.... Playing dirty leads to fastballs to the cranium...betting on baseball leads to lifetime bans. He knew the chances, took them and lost his bet. Let him forever be a poster child for no betting on the sport you are playing....no matter how good you are.

I see everyone talking about him not being allowed in because he broke the rules and lied about it. How many of the roid users with Hall of Fame worthy numbers have done the same thing?

It is likely those guys will be voted into the HOF. My stance on it is this, if Rose lied about his gambling and is banned from the HOF, then all of the steroid users who lied about performance enhancing drugs should face the same life time ban. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGuire, A-Rod, Sosa, etc. should all be left off of the HOF ballot if we're going to hold Rose to the same standard of cheating and then lying about it.

this is one that iam glad that has come up.


i wrote to commissioner selig about this.

for what he did on the field i agree he should be in, asked mr selig if all these players doing roids and drugs are allowed to still play then pete rose should be in the hall of fame. if you want to keep the ban fine keep it but he did what he did when his playing days were over and thats what he would be voted in the hall of fame in for .undertand what he did was wrong but if thses players in the roid era are allowed to get away with this what does this teach the youth. take drugs to be better.


i think that his punishment will be after dies the ban will be lifted and will be allowed in think he should be in now

What he did as a manager had ZERO impact on what he did as a player. Great hustler, played the game the way it was meant to be played.

YES for sure. This one's not even close.

I had to vote yes on this one. He was one of the greatest hitters of all time. I think that he should be let into the HOF and just have nothing mentioned about what happened during his coaching career!

I say he should get in.
He should be held out of the HoF for something he did as a coach.
He should be voted in for what he did as a player, which was very remarkable and was a great thing for the MLB at the time.

To make it even shorter and sweeter, I vote let him in for PETE'S sake!

He goes in because I'm a Phillies fan and I'd be crucified if I said otherwise.

I couldn't have said this better myself! I realize that his numbers are Hall of Fame numbers, but they make these rules for a reason. I agree with aceecards as well. There is probably a lot of information that we have no idea about. He did something wrong, and we all know he did. Just because he was one of the greatest ever, we can't bend the rules for him. Rules don't just apply to the mediocre players, they apply to everybody!!

I did a paper/speech on why he should be in the HOF my senior year on high school. I had to do a persuasive speech on something, and picked this topic, and my teacher said I did a very good job on the speech. Rose was one of the hardest working players in baseball. He's top 10 in a slew of categories, is a big fan favorite among past and present players. It's seems like its a big tuggle between fans and baseball's head office with this topic. I don't see why baseball won't give the fans what the fans want and put him in there. It's not like he did steroids....and I'm sure that the same people who do the HOF ballot voting will vote in some of the Steroid Era players.

Absolutely he should be let in, and while he is still alive to see it. This guy was amazing when he played baseball, and the Hall of Fame is ment to honor those players who were the best. Banning him from baseball was punishment enough. He was a clean player and the best hitter in the game. Saying his "his numbers are Hall of Fame numbers, but they make these rules for a reason" is a bit of an understatement I think. His numbers aren't just Hall of Fame numbers. He has more hits than anyone ever. I feel the Hall of Fame is incomplete until he is in . . . Along with Bert Blyleven, but that is a different debate

I would vote him in. A unbelievable player, and he played cleanly. Sure he had off field issues, but he didn't cheat to become the player he did. MLB players are breaking rules nowadays with performance enhancing drugs, and all they need is a 50 game suspension. Rose gambled, and he's being denied the entrance to the Hall of Fame? Vote him in.

In terms of playing without PHD's, yes, he played cleanly, but in terms of ending a man's career in the All-Star game, then no, he didn't play cleanly sometimes....

That's just a credit to how hard he played the game, even when it was just an exhibition.

I think the numbers get Rose in, as at least you can say that his gambling never really directly impacted a game. It will be interesting to see how many known/suspected juicers make the HOF. If even one gets in, Rose better be in that next year.

Wow, it is a slaughter so far...

I'm very mixed on this.

What he did and achieved as a Player should have been a shoe-in. He was one of the Super Stars of Baseball when I was a kid. To many fans he already is a HOFer, in the spirit of the game anyway, even though his is not in the technical ceremonial honor system sort of thing.

The gambling thing which brings up this whole "Should he go in or not" thing is a strong suit for keeping him out.

Will he get in? Not in his lifetime, probably not in our lifetimes, but whose to say in about say a hundred years? If there still is a Hall of Fame and Baseball is still held in high esteem, maybe he will be.

Fence rider alert!!

I say in, any lengthy anwer would land me in the penalty box, hit king..enough said this is not the diners club! what a load....

All I got was 'I say in'....

Me too..... but it was very late when he typed it....

Let me give some first hand accounts

I watched that 70 all star game when he ran over ray fosse and appreciated the hard play.

I watched the war with Buddy harrelson in the 72 playoffs on TV live and appreciated his effort

I watched every game they showed during the 44 game hitting streak and loved every minute of it

I Saw Pete play in person both at riverfront stadium and st louis 6 times he epitomized the spirit of the game and as an opposing fan I dreaded when he came to bat!

He WAS a first ballot, unanimous choie for the baseball HOF!

BUT!!!

He knew the rules, They are printed on every club house wall and have been since the Black Sox scandal. He knew the history of Joe Jackson and the Eight men out.

WHY in the Lords name did he make a conscious decision to bet on baseball?

Thereby solidifying my position on a NO WAY he gets in!

It was pre-meditated, for greed or other reasons and was just purely 110% stupid!

I cant believe 23 of you would vote to affect the INTEGRITY of the game when the fact remains that he knew it was wrong and did it anyway!

A Bartlett Giamatti knew something or found damning evidence on Pete and placed the ban. he died. Rose finally admitted to doing it. End of Story. Pete Rose just like a murderer spends eternity looking inside from the outside of Cooperstown!

You all are setting here complaining about Juicers affecting the Integrity of the game and I agree.. BUT this folks .. could cause teams to throw games, bench players , make bad managing decisions etc etc etc.. The one thing we expect is for players to give 110% every time out! If betting is a problem the first thing that happens is they quit giving that 110%! And then the Game is not the same!

23 of you also need to remember that as a manager he controlled the integrity of the game!

Change your vote.!

Stand up for what is really wrong!

And lets not forget MLB's stance on gambling in relation to one of the greatest who played the game Willie Mays!

After he retired Willie took a job for a casino.. MLB and Bowie Kuhn immediately cut all ties with Willie Mays for a long time ! Look it up if you dont believe me!

was mantle and mays banned by bowie kuhn

Peter Ueberroth llifted it

I'm not riding the fence... I'm behind it looking in through the tiny knot in the plank behind the corner in left field.

He gets in as far as I'm concerned. There are a lot of guys in the Hall who have done alot worse things than bet on baseball. This is not a "Hall of Saints" it's a Hall of Fame. Can you tell me of anyone who played the game harder and at a higher level than Charlie Hustle.

I cannot believe you could type that with a straight face.... maybe you didn't.

Integrity? In a sport that allows you to steal bases?

Let's talk about "integrity"... how much integrity does baseball show when a player gets caught doctoring a ball, ala the spitball, the hidden emery board, a corked bat, etc... you get ejected, suspended for a few games at the most. And people laugh it off.

How much integrity does baseball show when for years they looked the other way when they knew that players were using performance enhancing drugs?

How much integrity does baseball show when it leaves a guy on the All Star ballot when he just got busted for using a banned substance? Not back in the early 2000's, but now when it against the rules.

And you are going to tell me that a guy who bet on baseball, bet on his own team to win, is worse than that? Don't give me that "they aren't telling us everything" bull, if they had one shred of evidence showing that Rose bet on his team to lose it would have been presented. No doubt.

If you keep Rose out, you have to keep out every single player who has ever been accused of taking performance-enhancing drugs. I'd rather let them in, they are in the Hall of Fame because they became household names and they captivated the masses.

Rose's case is better than the steroid users, because he got every single one of those hits clean. I think it's a travesty that he isn't in yet.

My problem with Pete Rose is that I think he was a jerk. It was like hey I'm Pete Rose, so I bet on baseball, big deal. Well, it was a big deal. Keep him out.

My problem with Pete Rose is that I think he was a jerk. It was like hey I'm Pete Rose, so I bet on baseball, big deal. Well, it was a big deal. Keep him out.

I got it the first time bro...

Yeah, but Pete Rose wasn't accused of cheating. Everyone knows he did something wrong, so he's not being accused. None of the steroid users have gotten into the HOF yet. Mark McGwire is only getting around 20% of the votes, and I really doubt that Barry Bonds wills get the full 75% either. Breaking the rules will never get you into the HOF. Rose is still regarded as one of the best ever, he's just not in the Hall. I think that's how it will be for a long time.

Sorry, about the last post it was late, I meant to say let him in, I never knew that there was a stipulation to be a choir boy to get into the hall. Didn't Mickey Mantel play Drunk, abuse his wife? I think it is comprimising the integrity of the hall of fame to not allow him in, afterall, some one whom would not have made it in could be taking his place there..something to think about before we start preaching integrity.

I'm going to say no because he broke MLB rules and should be punished for that.

Yes! He was one of the greatest players of all time! How could he no be in?

People have about five hours to get their last statements in....

Well, the masses have spoken and clearly the overwhelming majority believes Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall... it was a landslide! I am forwarding this to Bud Selig and I am sure ol' Pete Rose will be reinstated in no time!

I'll be doing the random in just a moment...

Alrighty then, I am now entering the #s 2 through 44 into the random.org and our big winner is.... #3!


#3 is WestCoastSkinsFan! Congrats Sam on winning the contest, please PM your address and I'll get a prize right out to you... and with you being an A's and Kings fan I have plenty of options....

and thanks to TCC..

just read on espn that Bud Selig is indeed considering reinstatement for Charlie Hustle!

congrats to the winner.

FYI.. he will never get in! Veterans committee has the vote cause 15 years since first eligible has elapsed!

Yes, I was on the horn to Aaron, Morgan, the Wiz plus a couple of others this weekend pointing out this poll to them and it looks like they took it to heart... way to go TCC'ers!!!

Amazing! I got a package today, and I had a feeling I knew what was coming...

Or DID I?

Inside was a baseball and a note. No autographs or anything along those lines. I figured thats what it was, initially!

But no! I go to MLB.com and discover that what I'm holding in my hot little hand is a game used ball from the 2005 opener between the Jays and A's!

And here's the wonderful part. I've been to MANY games in Oakland. Probably at least 50. And I've brought my glove every single time, from when I was 7 until this past year. I've never got a ball to take home. Looks like one finally found me!

Thanks for the awesome prize!!