Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Boxbreakers September High End #1 Group Break, Break is complete.

[crpalmi]

I'm fine with that but with no other feedback I'm guessing not too many others are. Either way I will postpone the October High End #1 break. Not sure yet about the others but right now I expect the Hobby breaks to still happen. I'll keep you posted.

[Cardman123]

It was a creative suggestion, but I probably wouldn't participate in that structure. It would be easier to just make the break $175 and to run it every other month, but I don't know if that would solve the participant numbers problem.

The idea of retained team ownership is unique and one of the nice things about this group, but I also think that is what holds the numbers down. If you don't have one of the teams that either have one of the real hot rookies of the past two years or are loaded with hall of famers that pop up regularly in products (Niners, Cowboys etc), you have to be a die-hard fan of your team to stick with it. I usually get my butt kicked by owning the Rams because hot rookies are few and far between, and most of the products we break don't carry the few Rams legends that are out there, but they have always been my team, so I stick with them. That is why I almost always grab draft teams....it gives me a chance to get other team stuff I usually wouldn't get, and the most I can hope with the Rams is a nice looking Austin Pettis (perfect example since Chris always makes fun of him) and the occasional Bradford or Warner.

The point being, unless you have a sucker-owner like me with some of these other teams in the Rams predicament (Seahawks, Texans etc....the ones that are always available), the numbers just aren't going to fill up because the products weigh so much more in favor to a small number of premier teams that have permanent owners.

I would be curious to see if the numbers would be better if we did randomized team assignments every month. I love having my Rams, but it would also be a blast at having a chance at the big teams as well. But if we went that route, this becomes just another dime a dozen group break and loses its uniqueness, so I don't know if that is the right way to go or not.

Either way...taking a break in October to re-assess is probably the right idea, and it is nice to know the hobby break(s) will still be around for the time being. It will be nice if we can keep this going, but it definitely looks like some re-structuring is in order to maintain its existence.

[BOBKONING]

The bummer about this format is for those of us that grabed a team months prior to the draft in hopes of getting a good prospect only to have the break stop or change before we even break new product.

Yes, I'm talking about picking up the Redskins and Jags. I've held them for 7 months (investing over $1600) waiting on the new stuff to come out and now we are discussing dropping assigned teams.

I guess you know my vote. The reason I'm in this group is to own assigned teams. If the format changes I can go to many other internet breaks that do live randomization of teams and box breaks.

I'm good with delaying one month, but am in favor of the same format.

[crpalmi]

The bummer about this format is for those of us that grabed a team months prior to the draft in hopes of getting a good prospect only to have the break stop or change before we even break new product.

Yes, I'm talking about picking up the Redskins and Jags.  I've held them for 7 months (investing over $1600) waiting on the new stuff to come out and now we are discussing dropping assigned teams.

I guess you know my vote.  The reason I'm in this group is to own assigned teams.  If the format changes I can go to many other internet breaks that do live randomization of teams and box breaks.

I'm good with delaying one month, but am in favor of the same format.

We will continue to look at ways to improve the break but I will not support randomizing teams. I had been thinking of starting a separate group that did randomize a draft order each month in hopes that would allow for filling 31 slots but we are spread so thin that I decided to drop it. This particular group has always been about team collecting and retaining teams and that format won't change. In the past the price point of the products allowed us to break cases from 3 years of products which allowed for more "hot teams" but with the prices continuing to escalate we find ourselves in a 2 case group (if we're lucky). We'll see what else we can do but it won't be random teams in this one.

[11eleven11]

The bummer about this format is for those of us that grabed a team months prior to the draft in hopes of getting a good prospect only to have the break stop or change before we even break new product.

Yes, I'm talking about picking up the Redskins and Jags.  I've held them for 7 months (investing over $1600) waiting on the new stuff to come out and now we are discussing dropping assigned teams.

I guess you know my vote.  The reason I'm in this group is to own assigned teams.  If the format changes I can go to many other internet breaks that do live randomization of teams and box breaks.

I'm good with delaying one month, but am in favor of the same format.

I'm with BOB"KING"KONING on this!

[kpit1978]

I agree with keeping the same format. When I first got into group breaks it was via youtube with the random teams. Once I saw one of Chris's videos and followed the trail back to TTC I never joined another purely random team draw break again.
I also know the pain of waiting for the products to arrive that work in favor of the team picked up based on draft speculation. This is why I see no rush to get into the '12 products before the proper ones for this break are available. People who picked up teams based on 2010 products should get the full run of that year until it's time for it to be phased out based on the '12 high end products coming out.
I'm also fine with 11's split payment proposal but I would like to see what kind of product we'd be breaking in advance. I think instead of the set price Chris can figure out what the price would be based on the products regular price and if he can pick it up on sale when the time comes to order it, the extra would be spent on '12 products.

[kpit1978]

Sorry wrong thread.

[Cardman123]

I've been thinking about it, and I think I have a structure that might save the group. My thoughts are...

For September our budget was:
25 regular @ $115 = $2875
6 drafts @ $45 = 270
TOTAL = $3145 (minus a few bucks for members with mulitple team discounts)

One problem we probably can't solve is getting all of the teams to fill, yet we need the budget to be high enough so we can get a good mix of quality and quantity in each break so everyone has a decent chance at getting some return on their buy-in.

What if we made the break bi-monthy and increased the cost to $200 for owned team and $50 for draft spot, with the intention of filling at least 20 full spots? A few specifics I have in mind:

1 - Hold the break on odd numbered months (January, March, May etc.). Why odd you ask? First, it would allow us to take October off, which we obviously are doing anyway. Second, it would give us December off, when most of us should be putting our expenses toward loved ones and the holidays as opposed to spending it on our hobby. Third, it would allow us to break in January between the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl, so we can all get a football fix in the week without games, and we would be able to enjoy the playoffs without hobby distraction. All in all....odd numbered months seem like a good fit.

2 - Budget wise, it will be less per month for each owner, but it will allow us a larger budget to bust more products and/or better products. Some budget breakdowns are below.

With 20 full spots @ $200, we could allow for 10 draft spots @ $50, with the last two teams in the draft each getting two teams from the last 4 remaining. This would give a budget of $4500.

If we fill 21 full spots @200, allow for 9 draft spots @ $50, once again with the last two draft slots each choosing two of final four. This would give us a budget of $4650.

If we fill 22 full spots @200, allow for 9 draft spot @ $50 with only the last team draft getting the final two leftover teams. This would give us a budget of $4850.

Chris could plan the break on the budget of 20 full + 10 draft, and if we end up with a higher budget, the extra can be used for filler boxes that may not normally be considered "high end"...something like Momentum.

This format lowers the monthly cost of team ownership from $115 to $100 and lowers the monthly draft spot from $45 to $25, yet it increases our budget for product usage. The hobby could continue on a monthly basis, and the high-end could continue on a bi-monthly.

I would be interested to see if this setup would work well for everyone. I am in agreement with all of you that I would prefer team ownership over randomization. I get my randomization fix taken care of in other breaks, and I like having my Rams locked up for this and future breaks.

Thoughts?

[kpit1978]

That would work for me Joe.
I meant to reply to an earlier post of yours about some of the baseball products coming out. I have to agree with you, there are alot of nice ones on the horizon. I haven't even looked at what Panini has coming out (so dissapointed in the new Prime Cuts, although I did end up with some nice pulls and was happy that I waited till the prices dropped quite a bit before I bought some) but Topps Five Star looks great and the new Tribute looks like it'll be more like 2 yrs. ago with alot of good players on the checklist already and not added at the last minute like last years.

[Cardman123]

That would work for me Joe.
    I meant to reply to an earlier post of yours about some of the baseball products coming out. I have to agree with you, there are alot of nice ones on the horizon. I haven't even looked at what Panini has coming out (so dissapointed in the new Prime Cuts, although I did end up with some nice pulls and was happy that I waited till the prices dropped quite a bit before I bought some) but Topps Five Star looks great and the new Tribute looks like it'll be more like 2 yrs. ago with alot of good players on the checklist already and not added at the last minute like last years.

I've already pre-ordered a case of Five-Star for myself. I haven't seen anything yet about the new Tribute...I'll have to check it out. Unfortunately, I think Triple Threads has dropped off a bit from last year. There is some really nice stuff in it, but the boxes are much more hit or miss. The one good thing is that is causing the price of the boxes to come down quite a bit, so it isn't as painful if you 'miss'.

[BOBKONING]

Like the idea Joe.

[11eleven11]

That would work for me Joe.

Like the idea Joe.

GO with Joe

[crpalmi]

I would certainly support this as well if that's what folks want to do. It's basically a cost increase so as far as the payment plan I wouldn't require anybody pay half in the off-months but to help with budgeting I would certainly accept partial payments. The numbers wouldn't add up exactly as outlined as there are some shipping costs but I try to keep those pretty low ($4-5 per person) but the point is made that we would obviously be playing with a larger budget (assuming we can fill 20+ slots at the new cost) which means our product lists will be much nicer to look at. Keep the opinions coming but so far Joe's suggestion seems to be getting the most support.