Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Fake patches...how can people be educated?

[marcus42]

How can we get the word out about fakes to other collectors who may not know?

look at this.. eBay Auction (Item number: 170448825893)

the reds never wore a logo with black in it while Seaver was a member of the Reds...

this type of thing just really frustrates me...that's why I can't ever see myself getting a game used card again.

[dodgerblue38501]

The seller "hotpacksgalore" sounds like such and honest upstanding member of our hobby.

[multimediapitstop]

###### that's pretty bad. I figured all those baseball ultimate patches were real no matter how crazy the patches looked. Makes you think again about almost any patch you see.

[faulkrules]

The seller "hotpacksgalore" sounds like such and honest upstanding member of our hobby. 

You beat me to it!!

[marcus42]

The seller "hotpacksgalore" sounds like such and honest upstanding member of our hobby. 

Yes, the hot packs and fake patches are the double whammy

[cardinal]

Sent a message to the guy and this is the exact response I got:

"JUST SHOWS YOU THAT YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THIS HOBBY. IF YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE ON WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHUT YOUR MOUTH. THIS CARD WAS PULLED TODAY IN THE GARFIELD NEW JERSEY SHOW IN FRONT OF 30 PEOPLE. SO TAKE YOUR ACCUSATIONS AND GO FU** WITH THE REAL FAKE PATCH SELLERS. IF I RECEIVE ANOTHER EMAIL FROM YOU I WILL REPORT YOU TO EBAY FOR HARRASMENT. HAVE A NICE DAY"

Oh man....

[marcus42]

Sent a message to the guy and this is the exact response I got:

"JUST SHOWS YOU THAT YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THIS HOBBY. IF YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE ON WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHUT YOUR MOUTH. THIS CARD WAS PULLED TODAY IN THE GARFIELD NEW JERSEY SHOW IN FRONT OF 30 PEOPLE. SO TAKE YOUR ACCUSATIONS AND GO FU** WITH THE REAL FAKE PATCH SELLERS. IF I RECEIVE ANOTHER EMAIL FROM YOU I WILL REPORT YOU TO EBAY FOR HARRASMENT. HAVE A NICE DAY"

Oh man....

oh man that was awesome..there's a peterson he has listed with the serial number semi hidden...I so want to send him an email!! how lovely of a response from him!!

[jwman92]

Its entirely possible that the patch is from some sort of Reds reunion Seaver was invited to. Not saying that is 100% true, but don't just jump to conclusions.

[marcus42]

Its entirely possible that the patch is from some sort of Reds reunion Seaver was invited to. Not saying that is 100% true, but don't just jump to conclusions.

Josh, I'm not jumping to conclusions. Look at everything he has listed! There is no way someone could get their smarmy hands on all those logo cards in that short amount of time and have them listed that close together. I doubt Upper Deck would acquire a 'reunion' jersey as well, but that is a jumped to assumption.

Here is the card in question:

eBay Auction (Item number: 250592923981)

Here are similar cards that have recently ended...

eBay Auction (Item number: 300400442550)


so I wouldn't trust this guy one bit.

[cardinal]

Here is the card in question:

eBay Auction (Item number: 250592923981)

Here are similar cards that have recently ended...

eBay Auction (Item number: 300400442550)
so I wouldn't trust this guy one bit.

I'm going to send him a message about this also...

[marcus42]

I'm going to send him a message about this also...

first response...

HI THE CARD IS NUMBERED 8/10 AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER PICTURE IT SHOWS THE WHOLE CARD. THE CARD WAS PULLED TODAY IN THE GARFIELD NJ CARD SHOW. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS PLEASE ASK.

I'm not buying it...see how similar the signatures in both cards are?

second question...can I please get a close up of the whole card

[THUNDER9]

I've seen lots of people have issues with this seller, so I won't comment on the obvious. My issues lie with Upper Deck. They continually use "player worn jerseys" which equates to a player putting on a jersey, then taking off the jersey...then repeating 10 times, or 20 times ad infinitum. Upper Deck continues to play by their own set of rules, and is giving it to us collectors, but good! I don't doubt that the new Upper Deck Ultimate Collection jumbo patches are all legitimate, just that their provenance is very shady. Plus the fact that they no longer have their MLB license to produce baseball cards, it's not surprising to see them dump alot of high end patches into a product to clear out their existing stock.
Donruss Leaf Playoff did the same thing a while back.

[69madman69]

I've seen lots of people have issues with this seller, so I won't comment on the obvious.  My issues lie with Upper Deck. They continually use "player worn jerseys" which equates to a player putting on a jersey, then taking off the jersey...then repeating 10 times, or 20 times ad infinitum.  Upper Deck continues to play by their own set of rules, and is giving it to us collectors, but good! I don't doubt that the new Upper Deck Ultimate Collection jumbo patches are all legitimate, just that their provenance is very shady. Plus the fact that they no longer have their MLB license to produce baseball cards, it's not surprising to see them dump alot of high end patches into a product to clear out their existing stock.
Donruss Leaf Playoff did the same thing a while back.

He is without a shadow of a doubt selling fakes. I imagine he is one of Kevin Burge's dummy accounts or has direct links to Mr. Burge. Your point is also a good one in that the way cards are worded the players could be playing a game of checkers and it would satisfy the "game worn" or "event worn" criteria. It is cute how he has the same response for every big card he pulls, "It was pulled here at the NJ blah blah blah..."

[sschind]

I can't comment on the Sever card but IMO there is no way those to AP's are not the same card. Every point where the lines cross the shield or the word autograph are identical I'm not even sure if autopenned signatures are this close.

The fact that the whole card shot is positioned in such a way that you can't read the SN (I've tried enhancing it a bit but with my limited skills I got nothing clearer) and the way the close up shot cuts off the SN screams scam. Besides, even if those were legit pics and the close up really did cut off the SN why would you not put the SN in the description? Why just say numbed to 10? why would you not put in #6/10 Two reasons come to mind and they tie together. First to avoid a blatant lie in his description (about the card #) If he says its anything other than 6 and it really is the 6 card he sets himself up for a SNAD (which I doubt would follow but you never know) and second to avoid leaving more proof. Guys like this know that there are guys like you out there) thankfully for the rest of us ignorant saps) . They know that someone would find the picture of the 6/10 card and offer it up as evidence of a scam so he cuts the real SN off. If he shows the 6 on the faked card it will expose him. I've emailed for a picture of the serial number. Anyone want to place bets that I either get no reply or I get a picture of a very close shot of "A" serial number not 6 that shows nothing else of the card. In a way that would be even better. I'd love to get a picture of a serial number of like say 2/10 since he told Marcus it was 8 (lets see if he can keep his lies straight)


I'm sorry for the long post (If I was really sorry I'd end it now wouldn't I) but in part its because I am trying to help with the "how can people be educated?" question in the thread title. You guys do a great job here sniffing out the frauds and I really enjoy these threads. I've learned a lot from many of them. Many people like me would have no idea that this card is not a fake because we are ignorant of the details behind it. We like AP, we see a cool card, we see that he values it at $600.00 but maybe he will take $500.00 or even $400.00 and we can get a deal etc. and we end up with a fake card. The purpose of my lengthy post (which just seems to get longer and longer doesn't it) is to help answer some questions some beginners might have as to what is going on not only with the card but with the listing. Many people are not crooks so they don't think like a crook and so what I wrote may not occur to them (how does that make me look ) I know there are many times when I read threads like this where everyone pretty much agrees that the card in question is a fake because you all know the details but I have no idea what I am looking at. I don't know that a particular set was only numbers to 10. I don't know that they only used a certain patch in a certain set. I don't know that this particular parallel used on card autos rather than sticker autos etc. etc. Something a simple as knowing the print run of a particular card may be overlooked. Certainly these are things I should know if I am spending hundreds on a card but the sad fact is I may not. In fact I have asked several times something like "how can you tell this is a fake" and you are usually very good at responding and that educates me. That's what I tried to do here. Anyone with half a brain should be able to compare the two cards and if they are like me they should come to the conclusion that its the same card. What may not occur to them is why he didn't put the number of the card in the description. If they read this and think "oh yeah, it would be a blatant lie" it may make them think twice if they see another similar description.

I know that there are countless "how to spot a fake card" threads spread around the Internet and that is great, but many of these deal with generalities. Threads like this deal with specifics. The fact that it would take a miracle to get me to pony up more than 5 bucks for any card may pretty much exempt me from being a victim of a scam like this but that does not make these threads any less interesting or educational to me. Keep em coming and keep up the good work.

[edgerrin32]

i might work on putting up a video on youtube going over a bunch of scams with cards! i would need to get some junk player cards for cheap and some patches and other little things. but i might start to work on this! but then im kinda afraid that people will use my info for the worng reasons. and use what i show so they can fake cards!. i will see? unless people want to donate some supplies??

[cardinal]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, the guy responds with this:

HOW ABOUT WE STOP TALKING NOW BEFORE THINGS GET OUT OF HAND. I TOLD YOU TO STOP WITH THE DUMB REMARKS BUT YOU STILL THROW A JAB WITH CALLING ME A SCUMBAG. I WISH YOU WERE IN FRONT OF ME AND I WOULD BET A MILLION YOU WOULD KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. BUT EVERYONE IS SO TUFF BEHIND THERE KEYBOARD. PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND SHUT YOUR TRAP.

That was his response to this message I sent him:

"OK, I apologize and take back my assumption. But it is very very easy to believe that the card is fake especially with you selling hot packs considering pack searchers are the biggest scumbags in the hobby."

[marcus42]

This is getting great...

Here is my second question to him....

Awesome, thanks for the very quick response! I'm
extremely anal about buying very high end cards.
The scan of the whole card is quite small. Could I
please get a close up of the entire card? It's
kind of weird that the first image is only of half
the card, but I would like a close up of the
entire card. Thank you.
-Mark

his response (edited for language):

MARK THE CARD IS REAL I KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BUT I SCAN THE CARD LIKE THAT SO YOU CAN SEE THE AUTO AND PATCH BETTER. THE CARD WAS PULLED TODAY IN GAFIELD NJ IN FRONT OF 30 PEOPLE. WHY IS IT THAT EVERY NICE CARD THAT GOES UP YOU GUYS THINK ITS FAKE. DO YOUR RESEARCH AND BEFORE YOU START WITH THE ******** QUESTIONS AND ACCUSATIONS FIND OUT 100% THEN **** WITH THE SCUM THAT SELLS THE FAKE ONES. IF YOU DIDNT MEAN WHAT IM SAYING I AM SORRY BUT I AM SICK OF THE WANT TO BE FAKE PATCH POLICE WITH ASSUMPTIONS. HAVE A NICE DAY.

Did I once say anything about thinking it was fake? I said I wanted to see a full scan of the card?

[marcus42]

Steve,
thanks for the response, I definitely agree with all you have to say

[cardinal]

Post here anytime you get a response from him, hopefully he'll get busted.

[ronaldinho0003]

Geesh. "Everyone is so tough behind the keyboard"...very true.
This guy is obviously pulling a fake, he won't take resquests to see full card scans, and he has to use offensive language to get his point across. Typical thing for someone to do with no alibi. I just wish people like this weren't even in the hobby at all.