Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Non issue: Cost of Higher Education

[bob_TCC]

Personally, I get very tired of discussions about the cost of higher education and attempts to make it an issue. In my opinion, it's about as close to a non issue as there is.

When did Americans begin to think that it's the government's job to make sure that they can get a college degree for cheap? In fact, why should a college degree be cheap to obtain?

There are countless programs to make sure that those individuals that want to go to college can do so. However, that person may need to repay most or all of the tuition. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

Complicating this issue is the idea that anyone should be able to go to any college they want. No, you should be able to go to the school of your choice within the price range that you can afford. If you can't afford $30,000 per year, find a school that is $30,000 or less for the entire time. They do exist!

Beyond all of that, put the cost of education into the proper context. Higher education is an investment in your future. Let's say that you spend $30,000 for your degree. That degree then allows you to work in a field where you make an average of $50,000 per year for the 40 years that you work. Guess what? Your $30,000 investment just helped you make $2 million! I don't know about you, but I'd take that investment any day of the week.

-Bob

[ffman]

Personally, I get very tired of discussions about the cost of higher education and attempts to make it an issue.  In my opinion, it's about as close to a non issue as there is.

When did Americans begin to think that it's the government's job to make sure that they can get a college degree for cheap?  In fact, why should a college degree be cheap to obtain?

There are countless programs to make sure that those individuals that want to go to college can do so.  However, that person may need to repay most or all of the tuition.  Is that wrong?  I don't think so.

Complicating this issue is the idea that anyone should be able to go to any college they want.  No, you should be able to go to the school of your choice within the price range that you can afford.  If you can't afford $30,000 per year, find a school that is $30,000 or less for the entire time.  They do exist!

Beyond all of that, put the cost of education into the proper context.  Higher education is an investment in your future.  Let's say that you spend $30,000 for your degree.  That degree then allows you to work in a field where you make an average of $50,000 per year for the 40 years that you work.  Guess what?  Your $30,000 investment just helped you make $2 million!  I don't know about you, but I'd take that investment any day of the week.   

-Bob

I'm not blaming this on the government - just the cost of our world today: I feel sorry for all the students who wish to pursue a higher education, but can't. If it wasn't for the scholarship I received (due to a 4.0 all through school, along with a good ACT score), I would not be going to college (unless I was given a grant), due to one reason: my mother and I could not afford it. That's added pressure on me to hold a high GPA - but I'm a perfectionist anyways.

I think that I probably would be eligible for a grant if need be, but I'd rather not take that risk. The rising cost of college is one reason I advise all students to try their hardest in school. That's what I did, and because of that, I am able to attend college.

[bob_TCC]

I'm not blaming this on the government - just the cost of our world today:  I feel sorry for all the students who wish to pursue a higher education, but can't.

This is what I'm getting at though... Which students can't go to college? My college tuition was paid for via loans - not grants or scholarships. I then simply had to pay those loans back after I graduated - at a very small amount per month for 10 years.

-Bob

[ffman]

This is what I'm getting at though...  Which students can't go to college?  My college tuition was paid for via loans - not grants or scholarships.  I then simply had to pay those loans back after I graduated - at a very small amount per month for 10 years.

-Bob

True.

On the other hand, I think there are a number of students who attend that don't deserve to. Ex - those who don't care about classes, but only care about paryting. If it weren't for all these students who waste the college's time and resources, tuition might not be as high.

[bob_TCC]

On the other hand, I think there are a number of students who attend that don't deserve to.  Ex - those who don't care about classes, but only care about paryting.  If it weren't for all these students who waste the college's time and resources, tuition might not be as high.

This is all the more reason why college costs should be something that the individual is generally responsible for - again loans as opposed to grants. If it's your money that is being wasted, you're less likely to waste it.

-Bob

[ffman]

This is all the more reason why college costs should be something that the individual is generally responsible for - again loans as opposed to grants.  If it's your money that is being wasted, you're less likely to waste it. 

-Bob

But, loans can also be a shadow that looms over graduates. "I have a nice job, but guess what?? I'm already in debt!"

[bob_TCC]

But, loans can also be a shadow that looms over graduates.  "I have a nice job, but guess what??  I'm already in debt!"

That's part of life. If you want to invest in something to grow it, it takes money. Starting just about any type of physical business would take $30-$40,000 or more, so why is that too much of an investment for someone to make to have a well-paying job for the next 40 years?

We really have become a society of "want everything for nothing" thinkers.

-Bob

[ffman]

That's part of life.  If you want to invest in something to grow it, it takes money.  Starting just about any type of physical business would take $30-$40,000 or more, so why is that too much of an investment for someone to make to have a well-paying job for the next 40 years?

We really have become a society of "want everything for nothing" thinkers. 

-Bob

I'm not 'want everything for nothing' - I worked my tail off for what I have.

[bob_TCC]

I'm not 'want everything for nothing' - I worked my tail off for what I have.

It wasn't a personal comment. However, we've also became a society that is too easily offended.

-Bob

[ffman]

It wasn't a personal comment.  However, we've also became a society that is too easily offended. 

-Bob

I know. Again....that's the internet - it's hard to determine what someone did or didn't mean.

On the topic of our society......our society has become a lot of things - many of which are not good. I think that's something EVERYONE can agree on.

[aceecards]

ROOT, HOG OR DIE!!

If there is one personal motto I can impart to each and everyone of you ..

Adopt this motto..

it means you either get your sorry rear in the pig pile to get your food or die of starvation..

Survival of the fittest!

Dont wait for Uncle or Aunt Sam to hand you a silver spoon.. Jump up and take it.

[racedraper]

Well Bob the reason why American'swhat cheaper education is because people fro other countries can come here for free, so I hear. If your an resident of Alaska isnt college free ?

And Ace you are right on that one buddy....

[snowblink]

There are countless programs to make sure that those individuals that want to go to college can do so.  However, that person may need to repay most or all of the tuition.  Is that wrong?  I don't think so.

I agree with your assertion that every college need not be free or maintained at artificially extreme taxpayer supported tuition levels.

How do you feel about government loan programs at what could be construed as artificially low rates? These programs end up on the taxpayer tab as well.

[bob_TCC]

How do you feel about government loan programs at what could be construed as artificially low rates? These programs end up on the taxpayer tab as well.

I prefer loans over grants and other programs since the majority of the financial burden is then on the individual that is directly benefitting from the money. Plus, I do think that it helps to make sure that those with lower income have access to loans - something that may not always be true if left entirely to the private banking sector.

By the way, the gap between the interest rates on student loans and other loans has decreased in recent years.

-Bob

[snowblink]

When did Americans begin to think that it's the government's job to make sure that they can get a college degree for cheap?  In fact, why should a college degree be cheap to obtain?

There is the argument that the larger quantity of "well educated people" we have in this country the better off we all are. So that could be a reasonable argument for creating heavily subsidized college programs.

[bufbillsstlcards]

  However, we've also became a society that is too easily offended. 

-Bob

Yes, we are. And Im getting quite sick of it.....

[Sheesh]

I'm 15 years out of college and still paying off my $70,000 worth of student loans. And, that was WITH $20,000 worth of Pell Grants along the way. My single mother couldn't afford to put money away for me. Bob, you low ball the amount it takes for a kid to get a higher education today. And, what you want is for a poor kid to have a starting line that is 50 yards behind the rich kid in a 100 yard dash. While I'm still paying off my loans, the rich kid (through no merit of his/her own) don't have this onerous burden to begin their worklife with. Nice.....

And, from your logic, let's get government out of all education - primary and secondary. It's all cool - let the poor fend for their own educational future off of returned soda bottles.

The very idea of government assisting in higher education - or any education for that matter - is a way to provide an equality of opportunity. Government educational assistance for the poor and lower middle class is the PRIMARY WAY WE CONTINUE TO HAVE A MIDDLE CLASS.

Republicans like you, Bob, with ideals like you are professing in this topic, are interested in bringing back a caste system that existed earlier in our country's history. The "fat cat" rich smucks of the Republican party have been chipping away at our educational system for since Reagan, and they are succeeding (as our widening disparity between the rich and poor in our country illustrate - the widest gap in our nation's history since the robber-baron times of the 1890s). What I find suprising is it is a supposedly middle class joe promoting it. What a shame.

[bob_TCC]

The very idea of government assisting in higher education - or any education for that matter - is a way to provide an equality of opportunity.

Tell me, Sheesh, how would a system that provides equal access to loans with the same terms to anyone wanting higher education be unequal? Seems pretty equal and fair to me. Everyone gets the same loan and pays back their loans. That's pretty black-and-white.

The fact that paying back that loan would be easier for some than others is certainly not a reason to claim that the system would be unfair. Instead, that's reality. If I win the lottery next week (which I won't because I don't play), I could pay off all of my debt in an instant. Others will need to spend years to do so. I guess that's unfair as well (but it's not the fault of the banks, credit card companies, lottery, etc.).

So, I think it's pretty clear that what I'm suggesting is a fair system. Your complaint is at a higher level though. That complaint is about how to better normalize the wealth in this country across all citizens. There is a difference.

In other words, if the gap between the poor and rich was more narrow, would you still say that the system I'm suggesting is unfair - a system where everyone has equal access to loans with the same terms?

-Bob

[Sheesh]

I'm not talking loans - I'm talking Pell Grants and other forms of subsidies for the poor and needy. This was the purpose of the Pell Grant system and, for that matter, our whole educational system top-down.

Further burdening the poor and lower middle class with huge debt at the beginning of the work life keeps them poor and lower middle class.

And, no offense, but it certainly seems that those who profess to care for and help the poor would be for the most basic thing that can lift people out of poverty - that being financial assistance to attain a higher education. It is well documented that the more education you receive, the higher income you will make.

Bob, we had a discussion in the Kuo topic where I stated that the religious right could do more to help the poor, particularly in the area of public policy. Educational financial assistance to the needy is one policy area where this is true and, unfortunately, your position on educational assistance provides a grand example of my point.

[Sheesh]

To add, I believe ALL education should be FREE to our citizens and based on educational MERIT. The very best thing we can do for our country and our children's future would be to fully fund education - primary and secondary - and allow the best and brightest to succeed regardless of wealth. IMHO, the poor and lower middle class should not be burdened with debt at the beginning of life. This would not only level the playing field between the rich and poor, but would ensure a middle class would continue to exist. Burdening the poor and middle class with debt only ensures a continuance of our growing caste system.

But, hey. That is the very root of "conservatism", the very definition of it. That being the protection of inherited wealth and privilege.