Welcome back to the High End Group Break as we continue our 6th year together! I have the proposed product list below. Let me know as soon as possible if you are dropping or changing teams so I can keep the list accurate. Note also that if you are interested in joining but your team shows as claimed just let me know as we may have an opening in our "High End 2" group for you! I set the product list for a budget of filling 20 teams so we will hopefully not have to cut anything and can hopefully add to the list!
Just a note about the draft slots, I budgeted for one less slot than we need so after the list is randomized and we run through the draft, the person with the last slot in the draft will be awarded the last remaining TWO teams. This will hopefully eliminate the downside of getting stuck with the worst team in the draft. These picks are offered on a first come first serve basis to members of the group. You can buy one draft slot per owned team but if you would like more just let me know and I'll add you to the list if slots are available at the end. If we fail to sell all the slots needed to participants of the group I will have to offer them to folks outside of the break, but this is as a last resort only.
Cost: $115 ($112 for each additional) Draft Slots: $45
Payment Due Date: September 20th
Break Date: Sunday at 7pm(ct)
Please remember Paypal will no longer be accepted. Please send Money Order or cashiers check to;
Chris Palmieri
1549 Sussex Place
Shakopee, MN 55379
Product list: (Based on 25 teams filled + 6 Drafted)
2011 Five Star Case (3 Boxes)
2007 Exquisite Case
2006 Exquisite Case
Participant List:
49ers - KPit1978 --------------------- PAID
Bears - Dvashun --------------------- PAID
Bengals - KPit1978 ------------------- PAID
Bills - Quik59sat
Broncos - 11Eleven11 ---------------- PAID
Browns - Crpalmi -------------------- PAID
Buccaneers - Dvashun
Cardinals - GRG5050
Chargers - Cardman123
Chiefs - JoelWil
Colts - Crpalmi ------------------------- PAID
Cowboys - 11Eleven11 ---------------- PAID
Dolphins - 11Eleven11 ---------------- PAID
Eagles - Cardman123
Falcons - Crpalmi --------------------- PAID
Giants - NYStateofMind1976 ---------- PAID
Jaguars - BobKoning ------------------ PAID
Jets - BobKoning ---------------------- PAID
Lions - KPit1978 ----------------------- PAID
Packers - Quik59sat ------------------- PAID
Panthers - KPit1978 ------------------- PAID
Patriots - BobKoning ----------------- PAID
Raiders - ACP420 -------------------- PAID
Rams - Cardman123 ----------------- PAID
Ravens - Neutron Farmer ------------ PAID
Redskins - BobKoning ---------------- PAID
Saints - Crpalmi ---------------------- PAID
Seahawks - Quik59sat
Steelers - Straightbutta14 ----------- PAID
Texans - Quik59sat
Titans - Deantap --------------------- PAID
Vikings - KPit1978 -------------------- PAID
Draft Slots for Unclaimed Teams ;
Cardman123 --- PD
Quik59sat ------ PD
Quik59sat ------ PD
Dvashun ------- PD
GRG5050 ------ PD
Cardman123 --- PD
Struggling on the product list again this month but wanted to add some 2012 to the mix hence the Momentum. Open to suggestions but I did look at pretty much all years of Exquisite and NT and the price points continue to be a budget breaker.
In with the Rams and a draft spot.
Back with my team and I am cool with the box allocation
payment sent (last week)
Hopefully a lot of Steeler vets in Momentum.. I'm in..
Still looking for the Colts Chris.. in vain
Hobby 2 and high end 2 as well..
Do we really want Momentum ...
http://paniniamerica.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/a-teaser-gallery-panini-america-breaks-the-first-box-of-2012-momentum-football/#
Prefer not
I don't think there's anything in 2012 that I'd consider high-end at the moment and Momentum looks horrible.
Here are my suggestions for product:
Absolute
Limited
Plates and Patches
Gold Standard
2008 NT (if we had a few more teams filled)
SP Authentic sans base
Packers are available in High End #2 break if interested!
Oh nevermind thought they were avalible in this Break.
Its quite the dilemna. I hate to beat a dead horse to death, but ever since Panini has taken over all the licensing for everything, the product availability has really gone down hill. And I don't think searching out Exquisite is the answer. I personally think the college photos and jerseys are horrible. I like collecting MLB and NFL stuff. I don't have any interest in collecting college stuff.
I'm not extremely optimistic about where this is heading. I know that I can't support higher price points and would likely drop out of the groups if the cost was to go up. I'm still here for now, but I don't know how much longer I'll be around unless the products improve. My hobby money could go toward baseball which seems to have no shortage of nice products coming out.
I'd be all for some '10 Five Star or '09 Exq. even knowing I'd lose out on a Percy Harvin redemption if it was pulled. As Bob pointed out, and the exact reason why I dropped the Packers in High 2 and am contemplating dropping team(s) in this break, it just doesn't make sense to pay for teams that you need to get multiple hits just to break even. You're better off just picking up singles on Ebay and making sure you get something you like for your money.
I don't know...maybe it's time this break has run it's course?
Keep the opinions coming and we'll see where to take this but so far I tend to agree with all the statements and that this has gotten away from what the group was supposed to be breaking and that's mainly due to watered down products and the ones that aren't have really risen in cost toi where if we're not at 27-29 teams filled we're not really filling the product list.
I remember when we could buy 6 box cases of 2007NT for $1300 and we were breaking 12-15 boxes almost every month. Now if we want to stay high end we are lucky to get more than 7-8 boxes in. I don't know guys, it's been almost 6 years since this started as "The Exquisite" group and then we expanded to include other products and focused on NT/Exq and now out of necessity we have expanded to include Five Star which I'm still ok with. But with Exq excluded from NFL products the list of true high end candidates gets squeezed even more.
Keep the opinions coming and we shall see. Maybe we let this one fade away and bring back the multi-sport break?
I don't know yet about the Multi-sport as I was just throwing that out there. The whole reason that went away was that it was so tough to put those product lists topgether as well. If we did I would want to try to shorten the draft period as well so I'd have to go back to look at how we did it and maybe tweak some things. If anything that won't be for awhile and I wouldn't have any answers as to how we would format it so put that on the shelf for at least now.
I'd like to hear more feedback on this High End group and we'll go from there.
I think Bob already came up with the right options even if they're not overly desirable. Instead of a set price each month Chris could figure out the cost per team based on the product chosen or we keep the same prices but change the length between breaks and budget accordingly. If we break every month and half it would be $170 per slot, if every 2 months then $230 per slot and so on.
If prices go up I know I'll end up with fewer teams and I imagine others will as well. We would have to hope that there are other people willing to pick up those teams or maybe cap it off at 16 slots and then a price that would include a second randomed/drafted team.
Payment made for Rams and draft spot. Arrival in 5 business days.
Let's try this... Cases of 2006 and 2007 Exquisite to go with the 11 Five Star. It stretches the budget but I'll see if I can work a deal with ATL Sportscards. In the meantime I'll keep an eye out for deals on 09 Exquisite, 06NT, 10 Five Star, and those types of products until the 2012 big boys release.
Oh, BTW I need to drop the Jets from HE#2. Sorry Chris, there just isn't any meat on the bone for me to have the Jets over there.
Chris, I'll pick up two draft spots.
If you get in a crunch, I can add a 2nd draft spot, but keep it available in case someone else wants it.
Please note to change the product list we have to fill to 25 teams so there's a good chance we may have to cut out a box or two so hoping we get some more takers. Hard to believe the Saints are still there with Reggie Bush leading the league in rushing!
Chris,
If you ever bring multisport back or open a baseball break consider in for life with the Yankees..LOL
We have filled a few more teams with participants from the High End #2 break so Neutron Farmer takes the Ravens and ACP420 takes the Raiders. Also, I claimed the Saints since nobody else did which leaves us just 2 slots short. Let's get this done folks!
C'mon guys...looking for one person to step up and take a team and then I will take another to get us to budget. Actually we still have a couple draft slots available as well for anyone interested?
hey chris,
I will take the bears and a draft slot.
Time to start our draft folks. We still have one slot available so just to get it moving I'll pick it up so we are full. I'm going to send our list to a Mod to have them randomize the list and we'll get that posted as soon as we can so we can get started!
Ok, time to draft. The list has been randomized and we may begin right away!
On the clock: Cardman123
On-deck: Quik59sat
Draft Order:
1. Cardman123
2. Quik59sat
3. GRG5050
4. Cardman123
5. Dvashun
6. Quik59sat
Available Teams:
Bills
Buccaneers
Cardinals
Chargers
Eagles
Seahawks
Texans
Eagles. and I'll send payment now for 2nd spot.
On the clock: GRG5050
On-deck: Cardman123
Draft Order:
1. Cardman123 - Eagles
2. Quik59sat - Bills
3. GRG5050
4. Cardman123
5. Dvashun
6. Quik59sat
Available Teams:
Buccaneers
Cardinals
Chargers
Seahawks
Texans
GRG5050 takes the Cardinals
On the clock: Dvashun
Draft Order:
1. Cardman123 - Eagles
2. Quik59sat - Bills
3. GRG5050 - Cardinals
4. Cardman123 - Chargers
5. Dvashun
6. Quik59sat
Available Teams:
Buccaneers
Seahawks
Texans
Chargers please.
List above updated. Dvashun is on the clock.
Buccaneers, Thanks. And payment for this has been sent.
That leaves the Seahawks and Texans for Quik59sat and our draft is complete!
Draft Order:
1. Cardman123 - Eagles
2. Quik59sat - Bills
3. GRG5050 - Cardinals
4. Cardman123 - Chargers
5. Dvashun - Bucs
6. Quik59sat - Seahawks / Texans
Time to rip folks! We have 3 cases in all so we'll start with 2006 and work our way up.
First video up in a minute.
We start with 2006 Exquisite 3 box case;
Here's Box #1;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRhOIDmVlg
Hits from Box #1;
Here's Box #2;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FwcthjLgE
Hits from #2;
Final box of 2006 Exquisite;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDFullO-9pg
Hits from #3;
We move on to 2007 Exquisite and another 3 box case.
Here's Box #1;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjktWHtbu0o
Hits from #1;
Here's Box #2;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yor-EosH_20
Hits from #2;
Redemption:
Marques Colston RC Auto Patch - Saints
Final box of 2007...here's box #3;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEnVL4O28mg
Hits from #3;
Final product for the break, we crack our 2011 Five Star Case (3 Boxes).
Here's Box #1;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHzNc-V1w-k
Hits from #1;
Redemption:
Titus Young RC Auto - Lions
Here's Box #2;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHNjcw2PWtE
Hits from #2;
Final box of the break...here's #3;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3VCXss2SzA
Hits from Box #3;
That's it guys. The older products are obviously hit or miss...I was glad we at least got the Lynch and of course the dual Emmitt/Barry. Congrats to 11Eleven11 on that one. Also the Five Star box with 2 inscription autos along with the Dalton so there was some nice stuff spread around... just not as much as I'd like.
Let me know the opinions on the product list in case we ever want to look at 06-07 again.
Thanks once again to all who participated folks, I do appreciate it!
Thanks for the breaks Chris.
Thanks for the break Chris. The Emmitt/Sanders card was beautiful. Hard to believe that beauty has been sitting tucked away in a box for over 5 years. That being said....the older Exquisite scares the hell out of me because of the redemption factor, as you will unfortunately find out with the Colston RC auto.
2011 Five Star is still solid....too bad that seems our only really reliable product right now. At least 2012 Five Star is only a few months away...
Congrats to 11Eleven11 on the beautiful dual!!
I'm good with keeping the older products in knowing there's the possibility of the dreaded redemption. It costs less for 2 cases of '11 five star (on sale) then one case of '11 NT. I can see several options.
1-Stick with 5 Star, adding in older boxes.
2-Double up on the 5 Star.
3-Scale back the break to just one case of 5 Star until other products can step in, adjusting the pricing accordingly.
4-Put the break on hold until there are more products available. Not overly desirable but considering the time of the year we're heading into we could all probably use a little more money for other things.
5-Scrap the break and bring the Multi-sport out of retirement.
I see the same options and right now I am leaning towards shelving the break for a couple months but still need to think it through.
WOW now thats a card awesome, that old EX is such a risk but things like that make it so worth it I mean when do you see two HOFers like Drew bledsoe AND keyshawn jonhson on one card at the same time . incredible. congrats 11 glad it was you
Lets try this!
We break every two months, but in the month we don’t break we still pay 50% ($57,50 per Contribution team). Therefore we have an extra/bigger budget for the month we break, so Chris can get the best products available!
Example 1 team:
October $57,50 (Contribution)
November $115 (Normal Fee)
Example 2 teams:
October $115 (Contribution $57,50X2)
November $230 (Normal Fee $115X2)
Example 3 teams:
October $172,50 (Contribution $57,50X3)
November $345 (Normal Fee $115X3)
Example 4 teams:
October $230 (Contribution $57,50X4)
November $460 (Normal Fee $115X4))
Unfortunately, we don’t break in October but the break in November (Cases of 2008 and/or 2010/2011 Exquisite, 2010 and/or 2011 Five Star, 2006 and/or 2007/2008 National Treasures) should be fun
Just a thought!
11eleven11
I'm fine with that but with no other feedback I'm guessing not too many others are. Either way I will postpone the October High End #1 break. Not sure yet about the others but right now I expect the Hobby breaks to still happen. I'll keep you posted.
It was a creative suggestion, but I probably wouldn't participate in that structure. It would be easier to just make the break $175 and to run it every other month, but I don't know if that would solve the participant numbers problem.
The idea of retained team ownership is unique and one of the nice things about this group, but I also think that is what holds the numbers down. If you don't have one of the teams that either have one of the real hot rookies of the past two years or are loaded with hall of famers that pop up regularly in products (Niners, Cowboys etc), you have to be a die-hard fan of your team to stick with it. I usually get my butt kicked by owning the Rams because hot rookies are few and far between, and most of the products we break don't carry the few Rams legends that are out there, but they have always been my team, so I stick with them. That is why I almost always grab draft teams....it gives me a chance to get other team stuff I usually wouldn't get, and the most I can hope with the Rams is a nice looking Austin Pettis (perfect example since Chris always makes fun of him) and the occasional Bradford or Warner.
The point being, unless you have a sucker-owner like me with some of these other teams in the Rams predicament (Seahawks, Texans etc....the ones that are always available), the numbers just aren't going to fill up because the products weigh so much more in favor to a small number of premier teams that have permanent owners.
I would be curious to see if the numbers would be better if we did randomized team assignments every month. I love having my Rams, but it would also be a blast at having a chance at the big teams as well. But if we went that route, this becomes just another dime a dozen group break and loses its uniqueness, so I don't know if that is the right way to go or not.
Either way...taking a break in October to re-assess is probably the right idea, and it is nice to know the hobby break(s) will still be around for the time being. It will be nice if we can keep this going, but it definitely looks like some re-structuring is in order to maintain its existence.
The bummer about this format is for those of us that grabed a team months prior to the draft in hopes of getting a good prospect only to have the break stop or change before we even break new product.
Yes, I'm talking about picking up the Redskins and Jags. I've held them for 7 months (investing over $1600) waiting on the new stuff to come out and now we are discussing dropping assigned teams.
I guess you know my vote. The reason I'm in this group is to own assigned teams. If the format changes I can go to many other internet breaks that do live randomization of teams and box breaks.
I'm good with delaying one month, but am in favor of the same format.
I agree with keeping the same format. When I first got into group breaks it was via youtube with the random teams. Once I saw one of Chris's videos and followed the trail back to TTC I never joined another purely random team draw break again.
I also know the pain of waiting for the products to arrive that work in favor of the team picked up based on draft speculation. This is why I see no rush to get into the '12 products before the proper ones for this break are available. People who picked up teams based on 2010 products should get the full run of that year until it's time for it to be phased out based on the '12 high end products coming out.
I'm also fine with 11's split payment proposal but I would like to see what kind of product we'd be breaking in advance. I think instead of the set price Chris can figure out what the price would be based on the products regular price and if he can pick it up on sale when the time comes to order it, the extra would be spent on '12 products.
Sorry wrong thread.
I've been thinking about it, and I think I have a structure that might save the group. My thoughts are...
For September our budget was:
25 regular @ $115 = $2875
6 drafts @ $45 = 270
TOTAL = $3145 (minus a few bucks for members with mulitple team discounts)
One problem we probably can't solve is getting all of the teams to fill, yet we need the budget to be high enough so we can get a good mix of quality and quantity in each break so everyone has a decent chance at getting some return on their buy-in.
What if we made the break bi-monthy and increased the cost to $200 for owned team and $50 for draft spot, with the intention of filling at least 20 full spots? A few specifics I have in mind:
1 - Hold the break on odd numbered months (January, March, May etc.). Why odd you ask? First, it would allow us to take October off, which we obviously are doing anyway. Second, it would give us December off, when most of us should be putting our expenses toward loved ones and the holidays as opposed to spending it on our hobby. Third, it would allow us to break in January between the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl, so we can all get a football fix in the week without games, and we would be able to enjoy the playoffs without hobby distraction. All in all....odd numbered months seem like a good fit.
2 - Budget wise, it will be less per month for each owner, but it will allow us a larger budget to bust more products and/or better products. Some budget breakdowns are below.
With 20 full spots @ $200, we could allow for 10 draft spots @ $50, with the last two teams in the draft each getting two teams from the last 4 remaining. This would give a budget of $4500.
If we fill 21 full spots @200, allow for 9 draft spots @ $50, once again with the last two draft slots each choosing two of final four. This would give us a budget of $4650.
If we fill 22 full spots @200, allow for 9 draft spot @ $50 with only the last team draft getting the final two leftover teams. This would give us a budget of $4850.
Chris could plan the break on the budget of 20 full + 10 draft, and if we end up with a higher budget, the extra can be used for filler boxes that may not normally be considered "high end"...something like Momentum.
This format lowers the monthly cost of team ownership from $115 to $100 and lowers the monthly draft spot from $45 to $25, yet it increases our budget for product usage. The hobby could continue on a monthly basis, and the high-end could continue on a bi-monthly.
I would be interested to see if this setup would work well for everyone. I am in agreement with all of you that I would prefer team ownership over randomization. I get my randomization fix taken care of in other breaks, and I like having my Rams locked up for this and future breaks.
Thoughts?
That would work for me Joe.
I meant to reply to an earlier post of yours about some of the baseball products coming out. I have to agree with you, there are alot of nice ones on the horizon. I haven't even looked at what Panini has coming out (so dissapointed in the new Prime Cuts, although I did end up with some nice pulls and was happy that I waited till the prices dropped quite a bit before I bought some) but Topps Five Star looks great and the new Tribute looks like it'll be more like 2 yrs. ago with alot of good players on the checklist already and not added at the last minute like last years.
Like the idea Joe.
I would certainly support this as well if that's what folks want to do. It's basically a cost increase so as far as the payment plan I wouldn't require anybody pay half in the off-months but to help with budgeting I would certainly accept partial payments. The numbers wouldn't add up exactly as outlined as there are some shipping costs but I try to keep those pretty low ($4-5 per person) but the point is made that we would obviously be playing with a larger budget (assuming we can fill 20+ slots at the new cost) which means our product lists will be much nicer to look at. Keep the opinions coming but so far Joe's suggestion seems to be getting the most support.
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