Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Zimmerman Case

[aceecards]

NO, that is not racial profiling!

BUT that is not what Zimmerman did... You're comparing apples to oranges.

Zimmerman followed this boy in his car solely because of his color. THAT is racial profiling!

I think he was following him because he looked suspicious.
I cannot fathom following someone because of their race and only their race.

I just cant comprehend why Mr Martin reacted with violence?

If you have done nothing wrong why resort to violence.

I just cannot wrap my hands around that Jeremy.

[Ilovetheheat]

I think he was following him because he looked suspicious.
I cannot fathom following someone because of their race and only their race.

I just cant comprehend why Mr Martin reacted with violence?

If you have done nothing wrong why resort to violence.

I just cannot wrap my hands around that Jeremy.

Steve,

What would you teach your kid in the event an adult is following them in a car at night? What do you teach your son or daughter? To stop and wait for the person to pull up on them? Really?

But all of that is besides the point! Zimmerman should have never exited his car! You say Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he looked suspicious. What does suspicious look like exactly? You say you can't understand why Trayvon acted with violence??? REALLY? How about a creepy grown man bigger than him was following him in a car! And then got out of his car!

Question:
What is Trayvon GUILTY of? What did he do wrong?
Absolutely nothing.

When I have a son you better believe I'll teach him that if an adult is following him at night and he confronts my son, my son should defend himself! Again Trayvon did absolutely nothing!

Oh, yeah.... I forgot to mention there was NO EVIDENCE to suggest Trayvon threw "Dozens" of punches as the defense claimed!!! You ever been in a fight Steve and thrown dozens of punches? How'd your hands look?? The coroner and M.E. both testified that there were no bruises on either of Trayvons hands except a light bruise on one pinky. There was absolutely NO blood found on hands or DNA under any fingernail! So how'd he throw dozens of punches??? Again, no evidence. For all I know Zimmerman hit himself to make himself look bloody... We will never know... Trayvon cant speak for himself!! No way in this world a 17 year old kid was getting the best of 8 month trained MMA amateur fighter who was at least 40 pounds bigger than him. Again... REALLY??


I guess you and I both cannot wrap our minds around different hings! You say you can't understand why Trayvon acted with violence? Really??? How about he was scared! How about a strange man was following him at night!

What do you teach your daughter in case someone is following her in a car and shes walking home at 7:30 in the evening?

[mjda]

When I have a son you better believe I'll teach him that if an adult is following him at night and he confronts my son, my son should defend himself!

I'm certainly not defending Zimmerman, and I definitely didn't think he was innocent in this instance, but in my opinion you should definitely reconsider this stance before you have kids, for their sake. You'll teach your son that if a grown man confronts him that he should immediately resort to violence? Why not teach him that if someone is following him in a car to either 1) run away screaming for help or 2) call the police for help or 3) do both! I couldn't imagine actually "teaching" a KID to physically attack any man who confronts him.

Again, this is only my opinion and you (well everyone actually) obviously get to decide how you raise your children yourself when that time comes. I just think there are a lot better ways to teach children to react to confrontations than to have them immediately turn to violence.

[Ilovetheheat]

I'm certainly not defending Zimmerman, and I definitely didn't think he was innocent in this instance, but in my opinion you should definitely reconsider this stance before you have kids, for their sake. You'll teach your son that if a grown man confronts him that he should immediately resort to violence? Why not teach him that if someone is following him in a car to either 1) run away screaming for help or 2) call the police for help or 3) do both! I couldn't imagine actually "teaching" a KID to physically attack any man who confronts him.

Again, this is only my opinion and you (well everyone actually) obviously get to decide how you raise your children yourself when that time comes. I just think there are a lot better ways to teach children to react to confrontations than to have them immediately turn to violence.

When my wife and I have a son he will be biracial and one of the first classes he'll attend is some form or martial arts. I would never teach my son violence first if confronted but had my son been in the "Exact" same situation:

-7:30 in the evening, possibly dark outside.
-In his neighborhood.
-Raining or slightly drizzling.
-Being followed by a car he doesn't recognize.
-Realizing its an adult male that's following him.
-Realizing hes at least 40 pounds bigger than him.
-He looks over his shoulder and possibly zig zags and the car still follows.

There is no way a child can outrun a car. If my son were confronted then yes as of today I'd tell him to defend himself! And if that meant attacking/striking someone who was stalking them, then that's okay with me! Whats the option brother? Call 911? What do you do while they are en-route? Run? Out run a car?

I hope my child never has to defend himself but had my child been in that EXACT same situation then yes.... I don't see many options brother!! I can guarantee that boy was scared!

But you can guarantee I'll never teach my kids that someone wearing a hoodie is suspicious. Or to call people of other nationalities a f'ing punk just for walking in their own neighborhood.

I AGREE with your post. I was speaking in an extreme case like the one in the Trayvon case!

[aceecards]

AGAIN

teaching them self defense ..fine

using it when unnecessary , bad things can happen!

I fail to see how this was about race.

Was it unfortunate yes!

Restraint needed yes!

I have girls, they are taught to run to the nearest house and pound like hell screaming for help.

I would and will never condone violence!

if it was me in mr martins shoes, i use discourse. I tell him politely, lets wait for police to arrive. I even call 911 myself!

Again restraint!

Instead both men took matters into their own hands! they each made their own decision and sadly must live and die with that decision!

[urbanmonk]

I'm certainly not defending Zimmerman, and I definitely didn't think he was innocent in this instance, but in my opinion you should definitely reconsider this stance before you have kids, for their sake. You'll teach your son that if a grown man confronts him that he should immediately resort to violence? Why not teach him that if someone is following him in a car to either 1) run away screaming for help or 2) call the police for help or 3) do both! I couldn't imagine actually "teaching" a KID to physically attack any man who confronts him.

Again, this is only my opinion and you (well everyone actually) obviously get to decide how you raise your children yourself when that time comes. I just think there are a lot better ways to teach children to react to confrontations than to have them immediately turn to violence.

I usually stay out of this forum and the discussion herein. Same thing just IMHO but violence just begets violence. Lets say someone's intention is not violent (they just messing with you/want to scare you/confront you because they think you are a terrorist/etc..) if you go on the offensive then it gives them no other option but to go on the defensive no matter what their intent was prior. Nothing wrong with training oh being able to defend yourself but that is only used when one has exhausted all the other options (including run like hell). I learned from a Biker back in the 80s when I was a summer hire at HP how he felt it was best to avoid situations, and at least to me it made sense. He said that you act overly cocky and crazy, as his philosophy was that only crazy people mess with crazy people, at which point that was going to be the end result anyway so it's unavoidable, but "normal" people will avoid unpredictable loonies as the are a concern to even folks sure of their combative skill as you really have no clue what they may do (same as those folks you get the feeling (their aura) that you could hit them with a bat and all you are going to do is make them even madder and make things worse, so you best just run like heck instead). Nothing ever works all the time, as I was picked on pretty much my whole time going thru school as a kid by all the bullies, but as they are doing what they are doing to get a reaction out of you or feed off your fear for their enjoyment, if you ignore them and pretend it don't bother you (don't play their game as they can't win the game if you are not playing) they get no fun out of it and they go find someone else who will react to it or fight back, as that is where they get their enjoyment and/or power trip out of (I was never any fun for them, they would go find the mouthy one and pick on them all the time and it would escalate into worse things). In my 51 years I have yet had to resort to violence, though have no doubts I could give anyone a run for their money, but only because I don't feel much when the adrenaline kicks in and I'm mad (I bypass seeing Red and just kick it into Black), that and it would be because someone is threatening someone I care about so my options are more limited at that point as I can't just run or what-have you as it involves not just me and it has already become violent so really no other options at that point. And if you make me fight it will be to the death of one or both of us as that is the only reason I will fight (so you better have not only packed your lunch but your dinner as well).
Again just IMHO, I may be clueless in reality but I know what has worked for me in life.

[northicehero99]

Steve,

What would you teach your kid in the event an adult is following them in a car at night? What do you teach your son or daughter? To stop and wait for the person to pull up on them? Really?

But all of that is besides the point!

Jeremy, I don't think any of this was besides the point. I was taught and taught my kids to go to a neighbors house or a public place or police/fire station if close enough. Additionally, I would call 911. Trayvon had a phone as he was texting or talking with his girlfriend, but it doesn't look like he called 911? Did I miss that somewhere?

When my wife and I have a son he will be biracial and one of the first classes he'll attend is some form or martial arts. I would never teach my son violence first if confronted but had my son been in the "Exact" same situation:

-7:30 in the evening, possibly dark outside.
-In his neighborhood.
-Raining or slightly drizzling.
-Being followed by a car he doesn't recognize.
-Realizing its an adult male that's following him.
-Realizing hes at least 40 pounds bigger than him.
-He looks over his shoulder and possibly zig zags and the car still follows.

There is no way a child can outrun a car. If my son were confronted then yes as of today I'd tell him to defend himself! And if that meant attacking/striking someone who was stalking them, then that's okay with me! Whats the option brother? Call 911? What do you do while they are en-route? Run? Out run a car?

I hope my child never has to defend himself but had my child been in that EXACT same situation then yes.... I don't see many options brother!! I can guarantee that boy was scared!

But you can guarantee I'll never teach my kids that someone wearing a hoodie is suspicious. Or to call people of other nationalities a f'ing punk just for walking in their own neighborhood.

I AGREE with your post. I was speaking in an extreme case like the one in the Trayvon case!

It is great to teach kids how to fight and protect themselves, however with the glutton of weapons (guns knifes) in kids and adult hands is that really sensible? I don't think so, better to try to get out of the situation by running away or calling for help.

As I said before this is a travesty, however it is being made out to be a big deal because of the racial factor, when reality is there are a lot of people being killed each day. In 2010, an average of 31 people were killed per day by guns, see this article on the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/m..._n_2488664.html
Where is the uproar over the daily killings, as opposed to one story? It is only a story because two different races were involved and some people believe there was racial profiling and it has been questioned as such in the media. If there are not seperate races involved is the life taken any less valuable? It sure seems that way based on the media coverage.

Here is a good one what possesses a 6 year old to attempt to take a gun from a police officers holster? See this story from WPXI in Pittsburgh: http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/boy-6-...ng-polic/nYrB3/

Something is wrong and part of it starts with what we are teaching our kids at home IMO.

[Ilovetheheat]

Looks like we're all strong in our opinions... I'm glad we were all civil!

[mjda]

Something is wrong and part of it starts with what we are teaching our kids at home IMO.

Probably the best phrase in this entire thread.

[Ilovetheheat]

Ummm..

So its Trayvons parents fault he was murdered??

Really?

Wow!

Out of everything said in this thread the fact that parents need to teach more at home is the one thing that gets the labeled the most important sentence in this thread?

Wow... I'm speechless!

[mjda]

Ummm..

So its Trayvons parents fault he was murdered??

Really?

Wow!

Out of everything said in this thread the fact that parents need to teach more at home is the one thing that gets the labeled the most important sentence in this thread?

Wow... I'm speechless!

Did you even read the phrase I quoted? The key words there are "SOMETHING is wrong" and "PART of it". Did you read Brian's reply that contained that phrase? It was a closing statement that may not have even had anything to do with this particular case. Nobody blamed his parents.

Yes, in my opinion, that phrase is the best phrase I've read in this entire thread. Not even having to be directly related to this case, I don't think it's any surprise to anyone that children are being raised with a lot less morals these days than they were even when I was a kid (not that long ago). That's not even entirely a parenting problem, but it is most certainly PART of the problem.

[aceecards]

teach your kids about peace and respect.

teach them that we are all equals. teach them that we are all the same.

teach them to turn the other cheek and not to look for trouble

teach them what is right and what is wrong

Don't reward them for bad behavior.

Don't accept them making fun of the less fortunate and don't let them catch you doing it!

Don't discipline and praise them in the same sentence

Be firm!

If you see bad philosophies creeping in, nip it in the bud.
If you see bad influences from peers.. end it!

from 1-18 they are all yours, what they do when they leave.. hope you did all of the above!

Parenting is a full time job, not when you have to be!

Play catch, share a hobby, watch movies, play what they want to play, cultivate their interests. Don't let them Quit!

Reward good grades, reward positive behavior.

Give them chores to do and don't reward them for completing them but ###### like heck when they don't!

Reinforce all you want them to be.

teach them NOT to hate!

Give them the world all around them but not all that is in it, introduce them to other cultures.

[Ilovetheheat]

I'm done with this thread brothers. We've all shared are opinions and I think we understand where each of us stand.

It's sad how Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground and defend himself but Trayvon didn't! Tryavon should have ran? yeah??? Where was his right to stand his ground? Nuff said.

[mjda]

It's sad how Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground and defend himself but Trayvon didn't! Tryavon should have ran? yeah??? Where was his right to stand his ground? Nuff said.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't always make it the right thing to do. Zimmerman had the right to carry that weapon. He had the right to defend himself with it. Does that make it the right thing to do in that particular situation? Not if you ask me! However, a child fighting a man who is quite a bit larger than him definitely isn't the right thing to do either, in my opinion, regardless of whether that was his right or not.

[northicehero99]

I'm done with this thread brothers. We've all shared are opinions and I think we understand where each of us stand.

It's sad how Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground and defend himself but Trayvon didn't! Tryavon should have ran? yeah??? Where was his right to stand his ground? Nuff said.

Jeremy everything in life isn't about standing your ground, especially with the amount of people today who carry guns. Yes there are times to stand your ground, to me I would have ran. Hey a car following me could be loaded with 3 or 4 people, maybe gang members looking to fill an initiation ritual or just some group looking to mug me, all the more reason I would have ran and tried to get off the street. If he would have ran and Zimmerman would have shot him, it more than likely would have been in the back, and there wouldn't have been any self defense argument and this would be a whole different story.

I think all of us feel bad about this situation, but I see it as a reasonably defendable action. TM made too many bad moves IMO, not calling 911, not avoiding conflict but engaging it. That doesn't make what Zimmerman did right, he was overzealous about a kid wearing a hoodie, got out of his car when told not to. So here again 2 wrongs don't make a right. None of us where there so we can't assume what we didn't see, we just need to realize bad moves were made by both parties and the result was a horrible one that we hope doesn't happen again.

I respect your opinion, my only issue with all the uproar over this is the fact that every day people are killed or shot in neighborhoods and nobody protests for them and a good bit of the shooters don't get turned in, ratted out. So the shooter comes back to do it again or flees to somewhere else. I would like to see some protests about that issue. My cousin died for $30 in his pocket while delivering pizzas, sad that some people value human life so little.