Brian,

That's definitely another important aspect of this discussion. As a buyer, you are directly hurting yourself by removing your ability to dispute a transaction that doesn't proceed as desired. In other words, PayPal isn't going to offer any type of conflict resolution services for gifts and/or other types of personal payments.

-Bob

I think the issue is more that transactions being set up that way specifing that, as in the seller requesting payment that way. Which if someone says "hey they ripped me off" and we say "file a Paypal claim is your best recourse" and they say "but I sent it as a gift" then response probably be "well you just gave them a gift I guess" .



I believe you can refuse any payment with Paypal, granted not done very much but if someone sent you money accidently by typing in wrong addy would be a case. And I imagine that would be case with any type of payment.

People have their own set of ethics/morals, so folks can do what they choose if that's what they want to do and feel it is worth the risk/consequences. But then they are on their own if something happens or can only blame themselves from their own decisions in life (applies to many things in life, a whole multitude of decisions one makes in life on a regular basis).

Discussions are good, as long as they stay a discussion and not a mud slinging festival as that is how we learn

I worked for a powerseller on ebay, and he knows all the rules and guidelines for paypal. And when we shipped something, we shipped tracking number and insurance required - everytime. And on top of that, when we took pictures, we took multiple shots - now that wouldnt be necessary with cards, but a good front back scan would suffice. So that way if a paypal dispute did come up you would have proof of what the card looked like before you handed it to the postal service. And because you have insurance, if anything happened to it afterward, the postal service would pay for it.

If you can't deal with the fees then don't use paypal. Either don't use it, or comply with their "rules." Using paypal and then picking and choosing which "rules" you can work around is acting like a 3rd grader . You are intentionally breaking their TOS.

EDIT: Re-reading this comes across like I'm speaking specifically to you, I'm not talking specifically to you Gsil, this is directed to everyone who ask for payment as a "gift"

I think the biggest "keys" to this is that:

A. Your transaction with paypal is not really a "gift" as you are providing a service or product for someone else's payment.

B. BUYER BEWARE as you loose all right to get those funds back when you pay as a "gift" even if you are buying a service, you have given a "GIFT".

For those reasons alone members should not be "buying" services/products using the "gift" feature.

Paypal had to know this was going to happen.
People were going to abuse it. To avoid fees. i know most people are forums only take paypal payments as gifts now

I'm sure they did.. But they can take the good with the bad. No fees, means more people will take Paypal for payment. And that means more people going to there website. More people on the site, means they can charge more for advertising on the site.

Why I like gift payments!!
I have to use the gift payment every time I want to ship something.. So I'm glad they have it.. I have two accounts, one where the shipping has not worked for 6 months or more. So I have to send myself money to a different account and print my postage from there..

So I'm glad that I can send it as a gift!!

I think this kind of goes along the line of fake cards.. People trying to make or scam money is where it will go in the long run.. They will ask for a gift. Then not send..

If this is an accurate statement, then what does this say about collectors?

-Bob

i see that coming a huge issue down the road. once more people find out about gifts. this is pretty much a dream for scammers.

Bob,
i am not saying everyone is doing it. but it seems to become a big trend.

Actually, I would argue that it's already at the point of trying "to make or scam money" - just at PayPal's expense instead of the expense of other collectors. In my mind, it's one and the same.

With that said, you're correct in that this practice is just going to make online collector-to-collector transactions even more difficult because collectors are freely giving up some of the protections they have in exchange for a few coins here and there.

-Bob

I dont think it says anything about collectors. It's people in general.. They are hurt for cash or sick of big company's?? Or just don't want to pay?? Like with file sharing.. Most people don't care if some Huge company is losing money.. Just like most huge company's don't care about the consumer..

Again...

If people don't want to pay for a service that has associated fees, then don't use the service.

Furthermore, why are collectors buying pieces of cardboard if they are hurting for money so much that they have to figure out how to use deception to avoid PayPal fees?

-Bob

very true
The companys want to make a profit and keep customers besides that they really don't care.

So, let me get this right... Companies should just provide their products and services for free, right?

-Bob

The same reason people with no money still smoke and drink.. LOL

I think what he is saying is that they only care about the money. You pay for something. They get your money, they don't care anymore.. They already have your money. They know you will come back?? Or don't care because your just one person.

Yes, I've heard this argument before in relation to various aspects of life. It's all part of the justification process.

-Bob

correct. money is usually the number 1 concern of the company.

Again....

I'm just asking... One other thing we have not talked about is what will TCC do if things go wrong with gift payments used on transactions??

Will both members be in trouble? One for not sending and the other for using Paypal in the wrong way??

Should that be a rule on TCC??

Anyone using Paypal or any service to pay for transactions in the wrong way will be open to punishment under TCC's guidelines...

We all know this is going to be an issue.. Lets work it out before it becomes to big..