Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Official STL Cardinals Thread!, 2009 NL Central Champs!!

[MVPujols]

Figured I'd start this up as a place for us Cardinal fans to discuss the happenings of what should prove to be a very very active offseason for the birds. So far we have:


Kyle Lohse re-signed for 4 years, $41 million dollars (Full no-trade clause)

Lohse

Dave Duncan re-signed for 1 year

Duncan


So far, opinions seem to vary on the Lohse signing. Some will tell you there is no upside to a contract like that, and that he had his career year this past season. I say they were going to have to dish out that kind of dough for that type of pitcher anyway, might as well be Kyle. Other options for that rotation spot were most likely Derrick Lowe and Ryan Dempster, both of whom should receive more $ than Lohse got. Obviously re-signing Dave Duncan is a no-brainer. The LaRussa-Duncan tandem is now under contract for one more season. Will be interesting to see what direction ownership will go after the 09' season. Is Oquendo ready to be a big-time manager? Might help in securing some Latin players down the line. Just a premature thought. Obviously I am very pleased with the job LaRussa has done to this point and would like to see him manage a few more years if possible. And the final point I have is the National League MVP race. Looks like Pujols is the early media favorite. If anyone bothers to look at the stats it's as obvious as can be, but we all know the voters pay very little attention to stats other than HR's and RBI's. Would not shock me to see Howard win this award again. Discuss...

[stlbaseball15]

The outfield will be very interesting. Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, Duncan, Mather, Stavinoa, Rasmus, Lopez. There's too many. My feeling is it will be Ankiel, Ludwick, and Rasmus (if healthy). However, they might decide he needs even more time in the bush since he got hurt this year.

[MVPujols]

The outfield will be very interesting. Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, Duncan, Mather, Stavinoa, Rasmus, Lopez. There's too many. My feeling is it will be Ankiel, Ludwick, and Rasmus (if healthy). However, they might decide he needs even more time in the bush since he got hurt this year.

I'm starting to feel that the outfield isn't as stacked as we think it is. I agree that they have a major log jam going on but I just don't see Mather and Stavinoa as everyday players. I do like what Mather brings to the table though and I really don't think it is fair to make an assesment on either with such little big league experience. But it will certainly be interesting to see how Mozeliak works this one out. Also will be interesting to see if Duncan can recover from the injury. I do agree that Ankiel, Ludwick, and Rasmus is probably where they are headed and probably the most productive combination. But we all know LaRussa would prefer to submit 162 different lineup cards. There should be plenty of playing time for all

[MVPujols]

Rumblings:

Jake Peavy is available FT. It is believed the Padres will move him sometime within the next two weeks as to maximize the return. It was noted that Peavy prefers the NL and STL is on his list of teams he would waive his no-trade clause for. Others include Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, and Los Angeles. It is believed the Padres are looking for a near-ready CF and 2 pitching prospects. Peavy is signed to a modest, relatively speaking, deal that would keep him under his new employer's control through 2013. There is a gigantic $22 million option for 2013 that will probably have to be guaranteed for Peavy to agree to the trade. But in 2013 I have a feeling that $22 million might not look so rediculous.

I am torn on this, but I do believe the Cardinals should make a solid offer at least. Everyone seems to like the idea that Peavy is signed to a modest contract for the next few years, but I argue that the $ you save is negated by the fact that you have to ship off 3-4 of your best prospects to get him. That being said, this is the price of doing business anymore in regards to superstar players.

So, my offer would be:

Colby Rasmus CF (5-tool, top 10 prospect, think Grady Sizemore)
Jess Todd SP (orginzational player of the year)
Chris Perez RP (hard throwing righty, did some closing for STL this year)

Fits all the requirements San Diego is looking for. Trevor Hoffman will be moving on within the next 2-3 years and Perez could be their future closer. Todd was nothing short of unhittable this year. He would dominate one level, get sent up to the next and then dominate there as well. Has the potential to be a #1. Nothing really needs to be said about Rasmus. Barring anymore injuries, he will play himself into a starting job at some point next season. I would for sure put this offer in to San Diego and half of me would hope they decline it Anybody else? I believe I am typing these things for my own fun, but I am having fun!

[MVPujols]

The other option I see for the Cardinals, and the most-likely situation, is that they go after a pitcher like John Garland and devote some big cash to a middle-infielder like Furcal or to the bullpen in Brian Fuentes or K-Rod (very unlikely). I think the biggest mistake the organization can make is to feel as though they are set on starting pitching for next year. They need to proceed as if Chris Carpenter doesn't exist. If he comes back and is healthy it's gravy.

[dekno2]

Cards should go after Peavy. Rasmus is probably not coming to the bigs next year. but usually everytime the Cardinals give up on someone they become a bigger star. Just look at Dan Haren. Peavy would fit in nicely into the rotation. Cards should actually spend money on the right things this coming year. People were hyped up when they were thinking about signing Randy Johnson a few years ago. Peavy is amazing and he will actually be pitching for a team who can produce runs.

[MVPujols]

I just really don't see STL trading Rasmus. He is the poster boy for their new "develop from within" philosophy. Like I said, part of me does not want to see them trade him, but part of me believes it is the right move. Especially for a pitcher of Peavy's caliber. Four years of Peavy, Wainwright, and Lohse means a ton of wins. And if Carpenter could miraculously return to form, that is one heck of a rotation.

[stlbaseball15]

I cant see Mozeliak going after Peavy very hard. I think a viable closer is at the top of the list.

[MVPujols]

A couple thoughts for tonight: Just saw these on stltoday.com

Albert Pujols had more RBI's (116) than at-bats with runners in scoring position (114)

to put this stat in prospective you need this information:

Ryan Howard : at-bats w/ runners in scoring position (175) RBI's (146)

Manny Ramirez: at-bats w/ runners in scoring position (138) RBI's (121)

Alex Rodriguez: at-bats w/ runners in scoring position (166) RBI's (103)

Carlos Delgado: at-bats w/ runners in scoring position (164) RBI's (115)


or how about this stat:

Question: how many players have had over a .300 avg, 30 HR's, and 100 rbi's in each of their first 8 seasons?

Answer: (1) Albert Pujols

[stlbaseball15]

You could add 100 runs to that, but he only had 99 last year.

[MVPujols]

OK. Congratulations to the Phillies and their fans. On to more pressing matters for us Cardinal fans...


Cardinals GM John Mozeliak hosted a live Q&A session yesterday on the post dispatch website.

Mozeliak's chat

It is nice to see a GM take the time to do this. It was even nicer to see that the questions were not too filtered out. He got hit with some tough questions. I particularly enjoyed the one's that questioned the team's lack of activity at the trade deadline this year. I am not nieve enough to belive the team was 1-2 players away from a World Series winner, but they weren't a whole lot father off than that...

[stlbaseball15]

I heard on the radio that Peavy would waive his no-trade-clause to come to STL.

[coltsfan23]

I'm no Cardinals fan, but Peavy on the Cardinals would be rather interesting. They need pitching and Peavy would most definitely give that to them.

The thing is, I don't see Rasmus going in a trade for Peavy. Without Rasmus involved in the trade, I don't think the Padres would deal Peavy to the Cards.

[MVPujols]

Lot's of rumblings and grumblings going on from the posh GM meeting in sunny CA. I will devote more time to this tomorrow. But for now, it appears that the team is hot for Holliday.


Holliday


More to come in the a.m.

[MVPujols]

More on the Matt Holliday rumors:


I just don't see this trade happening.

(1) $ - The Cardinals couldn't really be thinking of just "renting" Holliday for one season? They are going to want to lock him in before they sign off on the trade. Is Boras going to get the Holliday spirit (horrible pun) and let the Cards sign him below market value? Not a chance. So your looking at something like 5-6 years at $140-150 million. Are they going to give Holliday $25-28 million a year and look Albert in the eye when he's making a measly $16 million a year? They have some major big ones if that's the case.

(2) Is Holliday really that much of an upgrade over Ludwick (the centerpiece of the STL offer) that it would justify the huge salary bump? In short answer to this, I believe yes but looking at the main stat line of both players would lead you to think not. If you think outside the box a little you start to see where Holliday would pay for himself, especially hitting behind Albert. But still, arguements can be made either way.

I will be very surprised if this trade comes to pass. It really goes against managements new line of thinking (developing from within). It also goes against what the biggest perceived needs of the team are (bullpen, middle infield, starting pitching). Most importantly it goes against the thrifty nature of management. But Tony LaRussa has been calling for a big name, big impact bat for awhile. I guess we will see how much clout LaRussa has earned.

[houkk]

More on the Matt Holliday rumors:
I just don't see this trade happening.

(1) $ - The Cardinals couldn't really be thinking of just "renting" Holliday for one season? They are going to want to lock him in before they sign off on the trade. Is Boras going to get the Holliday spirit (horrible pun) and let the Cards sign him below market value? Not a chance. So your looking at something like 5-6 years at $140-150 million. Are they going to give Holliday $25-28 million a year and look Albert in the eye when he's making a measly $16 million a year? They have some major big ones if that's the case.

(2) Is Holliday really that much of an upgrade over Ludwick (the centerpiece of the STL offer) that it would justify the huge salary bump? In short answer to this, I believe yes but looking at the main stat line of both players would lead you to think not. If you think outside the box a little you start to see where Holliday would pay for himself, especially hitting behind Albert. But still, arguements can be made either way.

I will be very surprised if this trade comes to pass. It really goes against managements new line of thinking (developing from within). It also goes against what the biggest perceived needs of the team are (bullpen, middle infield, starting pitching). Most importantly it goes against the thrifty nature of management. But Tony LaRussa has been calling for a big name, big impact bat for awhile. I guess we will see how much clout LaRussa has earned.

Someone's going to get him and someone is going to pay. It will be interesting to see if he winds up in St. Louis. I doubt it, though. I see them addressing their immediate needs, which you mention, first. A bat, like Holliday's, is like that sleak sports car you've always wanted, but you know it would be more sensible to get a durable family vehicle with a good rating and great gas mileage. He would look great in that lineup, but would be hard to keep.

[stlbaseball15]

Outfielders are the last thing the Cardinals need, especially overpriced, meagerly fielding ones like Matt Holliday.

Pitching, pitching, pitching.

[MVPujols]

Outfielders are the last thing the Cardinals need, especially overpriced, meagerly fielding ones like Matt Holliday.

Pitching, pitching, pitching.

Agreed. However, Holliday actually improved defensively this year. But point taken. When you hit .320 and 30-30 potential, your defense has to be horrid for anyone to really notice. I agree the money would be best served on pitching, but the most reasonable options I see right now on the free agent market would be guys like Jon Garland and Oliver Perez. Depending on the market though these guys might go for far more than their worth. I think the Cardinals are making a mistake by not trying to get Looper re-signed before FA opens. They very well might be, but I have not seen a hint anywhere that tells me they are. It is going to be very, very interesting to see how the team goes about filling their needs. I really enjoy the offseason.

[MVPujols]

This Holliday thing just isn't going away. According to Ken Rosenthal, the offer is Ludkwick, Schumaker, and Mitchell Boggs.

Rosenthal Article

It is also being reported that on the ESPNnews ticker it has the Cardinals listed as the favorite to get Holliday. I can't verify as I'm not watching So take that for what it's worth.

More to come apparently...

[stlbaseball15]

This Holliday thing just isn't going away. According to Ken Rosenthal, the offer is Ludkwick, Schumaker, and Mitchell Boggs.

Rosenthal Article

It is also being reported that on the ESPNnews ticker it has the Cardinals listed as the favorite to get Holliday. I can't verify as I'm not watching  So take that for what it's worth.

More to come apparently...

What a horrible deal. I hope it doesnt go through.